Asian American Christians can feel like they have a singular experience when it comes to growing up in a country with a culture that looks and feels different from what they’re growing up with at home. That’s why it can be helpful to look at the experiences of immigrant and children of immigrants
In this interview, we delve into the unique journey of Pastor Billy Lo, who is a part of the Nordic Chinese Christian community. Interviewed by Daniel K. Eng of the SOLA Network, their conversation sheds light on the challenges, successes, and spiritual needs of the Nordic Chinese diaspora. Their conversation includes the following topics:
- Pastor Billy’s experience as a second-generation immigrant from Hong Kong
- Insights on the interplay of culture, faith, and identity in Sweden
- The importance of intergenerational leadership
You can watch their conversation below, on our YouTube page, or via our podcast.
Editor’s Note: Below is a lightly edited automated transcript of their conversation. There may be typos or grammatical errors.
Daniel K. Eng: Well, hello, everyone. This is Daniel here at the SOLA Network. And here I am with Billy Lo. And I’m going to have you introduce yourself, Billy. Tell us what you do and tell us why we’re having this conversation.
Billy Lo: Okay, yeah, my name is Billy. And I live in Sweden, in the Nordic countries. And I have lived here for almost all of my life. I came to Sweden when I was two from Hong Kong. And my parents. Yeah, you can say they are the first generation. And then I’m the second. Now I also have family. So now is the third generation here in Sweden.
Daniel K. Eng: So you have kids?
Billy Lo: Yeah. Yeah, I have kids. I have three kids. And the oldest one is actually and have now is 18. And then the second is daughter, 17. And then I have the youngest one a son, 14.
Daniel K. Eng: So they’re all born in Sweden.
Billy Lo: Yes, they are the third generation. So I’m not sure if they are going to if they are able to speak Chinese or understand Chinese.
Daniel K. Eng: Okay. Why don’t you tell us about your ministry in Sweden?
Billy Lo: Oh, yeah. I belong to a Nordic Chinese church in Stockholm. So I started to go to church in this church, and then become a Christian. And then I went to Bible seminary, and then become a pastor. So I’ve been pastor in the church, for 20 years now.
Daniel K. Eng: Your churches actually in different locations, different locations? Can you tell us about that?
Billy Lo: Yeah, my church is belongs to Nordic Chinese church. And we have six different sites or churches. So two in Norway, three in Sweden, and one in Finland. So we belong to the same family. But we, in the same time, we are independent from each other, but we have a lot of cooperation.
Daniel K. Eng: Okay, so it’s like a church network that you share together?
Billy Lo: Yeah. And this network, this family, church family, we have been together for almost 30 years now.
Daniel K. Eng: Wow. Okay. I think some of our listeners would be curious to know how your family or other Chinese families ended up in the Nordic countries. Can you share about that you can share with them history?
Billy Lo: Well, yeah, I asked my father. And I think that I think we can say during the ‘60s and ‘70s, I think is a big group of Hong Kong people went to Sweden and Norway and Nordic countries. And also, I think, also Taiwanese people. So Hong Kong people and Taiwanese people.
And the majority when they come to Nordic countries, they work in restaurants. And I think, a small group of people before the occupation, they are sailors, and then they find a new home in Nordic countries. And then when they stay in the Nordic countries, usually they also work in the restaurant business.
Daniel K. Eng: So that was that your family? The restaurant business?
Billy Lo: Yeah, I think 97,98, 99% of their generation they work in the restaurant business.
Daniel K. Eng: Okay. But there’s the second and third generation now. Are they starting to do other things?
Billy Lo: Yeah, I think at least for me, because that the experience of the restaurant business is so difficult. I think that not that many second generation people would like to have the same, same base, do the same business, same occupation, like the parents, I think that second, second generation people, they will like to do other things. They will like to do find other occupation, so most of them, they do other things than the parents.
Daniel K. Eng: Can you describe so how, how are the experiences of Chinese people in the Nordic countries? I mean, it just it seems like they’re a minority. You’re a minority. So how do you what’s the experience like?
Billy Lo: I think that before, when I raise up in Sweden, I think, compared to many other immigrants, group, Chinese people, Hong Kong people, we are a group of people that we are quite a bit welcome to Sweden, we have a quite good reputation. Because that Chinese people, one of the sign of Chinese people is hard working. So Hong Kong people, Chinese people, we don’t like to have trouble. There’s only one thing we like, is earning money making, doing business.
So I think in at least in the beginning, Chinese people is quite welcome in Sweden. And nowadays, I think it’s not that big change, in my opinion, but because of the situation with China is become more sensitive. So maybe a little bit more sensitive than before.
Daniel K. Eng: Okay. Do you do you see that there’s a different experience for those who are born and raised there, kind of like your kids. And you and your kids?
Billy Lo: Oh, I think that she is quite the same. I don’t know. I guess it’s like the same. I think that the most sensitive time is a teenage, because during the teenage years, they just want to have the friends that they will look the same, think the same. So to look like Asian people, among Swedish people, is not that popular. And I think that is something that they will change when they get older.
Daniel K. Eng: So as they as they learn about their own Chinese culture while living in the Nordic countries.
Billy Lo: Yeah. And in the same time, I think that at least the capital city in the Nordic countries, become more diverse, international. So this quite often when I go out and in the metro station, I can hear different kinds of language.
So I think that the time have changed, it become more international, diverse. I think that if you are Swedish people, or Swedish or Chinese, I think it’s still important, but I think the time that is diverse, so it’s normal, that maybe you are not the same, like everyone is different kinds of people now.
Daniel K. Eng: Yeah. You mentioned those capital cities. Is that Is that where the Nordic Chinese Church network churches are?
Billy Lo: Yeah, some of them and then and all the other bigger city in Nordic countries.
Daniel K. Eng: Can you name them? What are some places?
Billy Lo: In Sweden, is Stockholm, and then Gothenburg. And Malmo in this is the biggest city in in Sweden. And then in Norway, we have Oslo and then we have Stavanger. So in these two cities, we have our Chinese Church. And then in Finland, we have in Helsinki, and then we also have a mission field now in in Denmark, Copenhagen, have a missionary missionary there, and trying to reach out and build a church.
Daniel K. Eng: Right because there’s there’s folks there as well.
Billy Lo: Yeah. And it’s also Nordic countries is also so close to to Sweden to other Nordic countries. So we feel that God is guiding us that we need to have we need to start a mission field in Denmark.
Daniel K. Eng: Pastor Billy, you and I are now having a conversation in English. Can you tell me about the languages in your church?
Billy Lo: Oh, yeah. We use Chinese and Chinese means that the Mandarin and then that Cantonese and then also we have local ministry which mean is Swedish we use Swedish in our local ministry.
Daniel K. Eng: When you get together with the other churches in your network, what about that what do you what do you do with them in those cases?
Billy Lo: There will be English training camp was taught to speak English because that I think that you can say that half of the group could speak Mandarin or regional and then the other half speak Cantonese. But because that we are the next gen, so our Chinese is quite bad. So the common language between Finland, Norway, Sweden and maybe Denmark also it will be English so English become the join language we have together every time you have a joint service when they make things together, we will use English.
Daniel K. Eng: So when you get together, especially you said next generation, they you actually meet and conduct everything in English.
Billy Lo: Yeah. And that is something is the benefit us because that will become more international is a good thing.
Daniel K. Eng: Can you tell me about kind of the some of the spiritual needs of the Chinese and then the Nordic, Chinese?
Billy Lo: Well, I think I think two things. One thing is about family, because that I just have the feeling I don’t have a standard about it. But I just have the feeling about among all the immigrant churches, I think Chinese church, one thing that we have quite good is to say, the economy. I think most of the Chinese people, they taking care of themselves, we do business, so about financial is not a very, very big issue.
But I think that the problem is that family issue, family problem. So I know, more and more families that even that they are high educated, or low educated. It’s the same problem that marriage problem, or parenting problems. And that is one thing that we need to help the families. One thing that we need to have prayer requests that we need to pray for the families
Daniel K. Eng: That you mentioned, there are two things so that’s the first thing you mentioned is family.
Billy Lo: Yeah, and the second thing is that maybe this is also a Chinese culture. And that is more focused on the the co worker, the Christian. And I have the feeling that we have some many who work here that they are really playful and hardworking. In the same time that is almost become that your relationship with God become the serving. You serve and serve and serve. And maybe it’s quite typical for Chinese people that you need to work you need is hard working. You’ve worked for God, you’ve worked for the church. But I think in the long term, you will become that you will be exhausted, burnt out. And then maybe that when you are not serving, what is your relationship with God? That is the question.
Daniel K. Eng: So being able to relate to God outside of work, working or serving?
Billy Lo: Yeah, I think that is something that we need to develop more. Because otherwise, I think that there’s always a big need in the church. But your relationship with God, I think that is a big spiritual need.
Daniel K. Eng: Okay, so how are the churches kind of reaching Chinese, Nordic Chinese and making disciples?
Billy Lo: And I think maybe we can, especially for the next gen, Next Generation. Before when I was young. In that period, I think it’s quite, it’s much easier, I have to say, because on that time, when the church organized camps or similar activities, there’s always a bunch of new people coming Chinese people, but nowadays is so different is much more difficult. Because that mainly about the internet, social media, so people is not attracted to come to the church longer. Especially the young people.
So I think that if we think about young people, next gen people, nowadays, is I think that one of the key is that you really need to have a good relationship with the parents. Without the parents involved and how it seems like that you can not, the young people just stay in the bedroom because the bedroom is the paradise they have the computer, the bedroom, they have all the things and you if you want to go out from the paradise is so difficult, but um. So I think that have the good relationship with the parents is one of the key that we need to reach out to the with the young people.
Daniel K. Eng: Reaching out to the whole family. Pastor Billy, you mentioned that we can pray for the families in the Nordic Chinese, what are some other ways we can pray for the Nordic Chinese?
Billy Lo: I think that the other thing is about the relationship in the church between the third generation leadership and the next generation leadership. Because that we have existed for 40 plus years, which means that by God’s grace, we have some new leader from the next generation. But I think what is important is that the leadership between these two generation, that they can work together, appreciate what they are doing. So one prayer requested that we have a good relationship operation with the different generation.
And then the family issue I have already mentioned, and I think the third, I would say, the mental health. Because that, I think, is worldwide about the mental health. But for me, or for us, living in Nordic countries, I think that when I’m getting older, for example, I will be affected of the season. So it’s especially during the winter, I realized more and more that the people who are not feeling good, it will be even harder for them during the winter, because that is cold. Because it’s dark. You don’t want to go out. You don’t want to meet people. So it will be even harder.
So I think it’s not only the Chinese people is actually an order for all the people in at least in Sweden, that mental health is a big issue that the whole society needs to face, but also the church, what can what the church can do to help the people who have a mental health issue?
Daniel K. Eng: Well, Pastor Billy, thank you very much for your time. It’s been really good for us to hear about the Nordic Chinese and how you’re ministering to them and get a glimpse into their needs, and how we can pray for them. So Pastor Billy Lo, everyone from Nordic Chinese Christian Church, in Stockholm, Sweden.