Marie Chan, a former California public school teacher and adoptive parent, discusses her book “Mamie Takes a Stand,” which tells the true story of Mamie Tape, a Chinese American girl who fought for school rights in 1884. Mamie was denied entry to a local San Francisco school due to her Chinese descent. Chan emphasizes the importance of diverse representation in children’s literature and the interconnectedness of historical events. She also highlights her work with trauma-informed support groups for adoptive parents and the significance of faith in her advocacy. Chan’s research involved extensive collaboration with historians and the Tate family, and she plans to share the story with Mamie’s descendants.
You can watch the interview below, on our YouTube page, or listen to it on podcasts.
Aaron Lee: Hi everyone. This is Aaron for SOLA Network, and I’m here today with Marie Chan, Marie, I’m so glad that we get to talk together, and we’re here to talk about your book, “Mamie Takes a Stand.” Would you please tell us about your book and tell us a little bit about yourself too?
Marie Chan: Yeah, I’m a former California public school teacher, but I’ve also taught in Pennsylvania too when my husband was working out there. And I’m also an adoptive parent. I have a heart for adoptees, especially those who are transracially adopted, and I lead a trauma informed support group through Saddleback Church’s Initiative for Vulnerable Children. So that’s also on my heart.
But yeah, this book, “Mamie Takes a Stand,” it’s the true story of Mamie Tape, a Chinese American girl’s fight for school rights. And the story is about eight year old Mamie Tape, in 1884 she was denied entrance into her local San Francisco Public School because she was of Chinese descent. Even though she was born in San Francisco, but because her parents had immigrated from China, she was denied access to the school that was literally, like a 10th of a mile away from her home. And so her parents fought it, and it went all the way to the California Supreme Court. And so this is the story about their journey.
Aaron Lee: I want to ask you what led you on the path to be so interested in, I guess, to use your words, hidden figures in Asian American history. Even for myself, like, I don’t know, like, it takes me to have to get you know outside influence on that. What was it that made you personally want to know about this stuff?
Marie Chan: Yeah. I mean, I love diverse books, and I think it’s so important for kids to see like mirrors of themselves reflected. I think that affects a lot of identity formation. So Dr. Rudine Sims Bishop, she was a professor that talked about mirrors, windows and sliding glass doors, and that literature can either reflect but also broaden our perspectives. And so I think we need representation, not just for ourselves to feel like our histories and heritage are our affirmed, but also for others too, to broaden their perspectives.
And I think for me, I just didn’t see a whole lot of Asian Americans represented in especially the area of biographies. Like, if you go to the section of the library or something, you won’t see a lot of us represented. And yet, there’s these stories out there, these gems, and actually some of these hidden figures have some faith components too. And so I just felt like that really needed to be highlighted. And so that was one aspect.
But actually I feel like our histories are very interwoven. So what led me to write this book about Mamie Tape in particular actually started with a different picture book. I was reading “Separate is Never Equal” by Duncan Tonatiuh to my daughter and thinking that it was going to be a book about Linda Brown and Brown versus Board of Education that US Supreme Court case in 1954, when they said, separate schools are inherently unequal. But then it turned out like it was about Sylvia Mendez and and I was like, Wait, who’s Sylvia Mendez? You know, I had taught in Los Angeles County with a predominantly, like Mexican American family, like families who had immigrated from Mexico. And I was like, How come I don’t know this story?
It happened here in Orange County, California, in 1947 there were separate Mexican schools, and I didn’t know I had to learn from it, from a picture book. And I’m sitting here, and we’re both living in Southern California, and I’m sitting here reading this, reading aloud, this, like picture book to my daughter, and thinking, Wait, these names, Westminster, Garden Grove, Santa Ana. Wait, I know these, like cities, this can’t be here.
And all of a sudden I just went on this rabbit trail of research just about that case and school integration in California. And that’s when I stumbled upon the Tape v. Hurley Case, the Mamie Tape story. And then I was like, Oh, wait here. I was born in California, taught in California, went to school, public schools here, and I wouldn’t have had that opportunity if it hadn’t been for the victory in Tape v. Hurley. And I’m like, How come I didn’t know this history at all. And so I just Yeah, kept learning as much as I could, and that led me to write this picture because I thought parents are very busy, but they’ll have time to read a picture book to their kids and learn about this history.
But I just want to add one other thing. The Mendez case here in Orange County actually has an Asian American connection, and so that’s why I was saying things are very interwoven. So I met Janice Munemitsu, who the Mendez family leased the Munemitsu Farm because the Munemitsu family, unfortunately, they’re a Japanese American family that was incarcerated and posted in an internment camp during World War II, and that’s why the Mendez family was leasing that farm in Westminster, and that’s why the case occurred.
And thankfully, the Mendez family cared for their farm so that after the war, when they returned, they had something to return to. But again, you see how the kindness of these two families are interconnected, and so you wouldn’t think that the Mendez case would have an Asian American connection, but it does. And Janice is also a person of faith, too, and it’s neat to see, I know her personally, and yeah, we’ve talked about this at length as well. And so, yeah, so I just think there’s just a lot of components involved and we’re not isolated. Things are actually more interwoven than we think.
Aaron Lee: So much to talk about there. I love all of that. So how things are interwoven, I feel that because of your, maybe your, I guess story as an adoptive bond, maybe that plays into that too, a little bit. But before we talk about that, I want to say that you didn’t have to make it like a children’s young adult like book. I don’t think, because I’ve read, you know, Asian American history books, I don’t know, I don’t recall reading like a children’s or a young adult type of book. They’ve always been like, you know, a little bit more adult oriented, you know, almost textbook like, and so for you to make the choice for this one, for Mamie to be, you know, for for younger readers, I think it was awesome, especially because she was, what, eight years old, you said. So it seems so fitting to me.
So I want to, I want to ask you, does your path as an adoptive mom have anything to do with this? But also, I just want to talk about you being an adoptive mom, because I’m an adoptive dad too. So yeah, I want you to share about your path to that. And then also you lead a trauma informed support group for adoptive parents. Yeah? Like, tell me how that kind of combines with everything, with your work and everything too.
Marie Chan: Yeah. So can I talk a little bit about Mamie and adoption, actually? Yeah. Mamie’s mother, who wrote that very important letter that was published in The Daily Alta California in 1885 where she says, didn’t God make us all? She was actually orphaned at a young age and was taken into the Ladies Protection Society there in San Francisco.
But interestingly, and I put this in the back matter of “Mamie Takes a Stand”, is that Mamie Tate lived across the street from the mission that Donaldina Cameron and Tien Fuh Wu they led. That it was to help women and girls that were being trafficked in San Francisco. And so, you know, it’s not quite orphaned, but, I mean, there’s again that that again is, that whole idea of vulnerable children is really on my heart. But I feel like that’s God’s heart too, right? He’s a father to the fatherless.
And that’s, you know, before. I mean, I feel like before, even like my husband, I got married, maybe when we’re dating, I think we’re already talking about, like, we just felt like God has a heart for the orphan and these issues of justice. It’s not just something trendy or like, you know, but it’s like, that’s, that’s biblical, that’s on God’s heart, you know.
And so we always felt like, you know, called to adoption. But I think there was a heavy push, you know, for people to adopt, but there was often no support, like after. And I think something that I have learned is that, you know, a lot of these children come from really hard places, and even to be separated from your birth family, there is a grief there, especially for transracial adoptees, there’s a loss of culture. And so I feel like those adoptive voices need to be affirmed and heard, and oftentimes we don’t listen enough. We don’t try to understand that enough. And so.
But also, I think it’s not easy, when children have gone through trauma, right? They’re going to have different maybe behaviors or some things. Not because of a fault of their own, but just because their bodies, their brains, have gone through so much, and they’ve gone through so many different kind of transitions. And so I think there’s a lot of support needed there. And so I’m really thankful for my church. They we do something called trust based relational intervention. It was something researched by Dr. Karyn Purvis at Texas Christian University. But there’s her famous book, “The Connected Child.” But also she did something with our church that actually had some biblical base too. It’s a separate workbook, and so that’s something that we have used as well.
But I feel like, honestly, I feel like trauma informed parenting is just good parenting too. I mean, because kids go through a lot of things, you know, for us in my family, like, unfortunately, my youngest son passed away unexpectedly, and that’s a trauma too, right? And so there’s just different things, like we go through hard things, and I think it’s really neat to see, especially in trust based relational intervention, like how they’ve done studies of like how the brain works and heals in relationship.
And I thought to myself, isn’t that the way God is right? Like that, like we heal through our relationship with Him and in community with each other. And I find that so hopeful, right, that despite whatever difficult background you may have come into, whatever trauma you’ve experienced, whatever dysfunction, that there is that potential of healing and hope and God has made the brain so pliable that way, and that it’s done through attachment and connection and in relationship.
And I also like the holistic view of trauma informed parenting, where we address, you know, the social, the emotional, the spiritual, right and how like trauma affects our bodies. And I just think about, you know, how we love God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength and similarly, right, like those things, again, are interconnected. Like the our emotions do affect us physically too, like there’s and so oftentimes we address like those different things, like, what are some calming strategies. What are When you get triggered by something, you know, how can we affirm like what you’re feeling right now, instead of negating it and just pushing that aside, so just just lots of different things. And I, I just feel like it really just helps us actually build relationships with other people and grow in empathy as well.
Aaron Lee: Yeah, I just want to tell you, you’re doing important work, and I think that it’s, it’s great. So thank you for that. You kind of already answered our question how your faith factors into it. When I was sharing the book with my daughter, my daughter’s pretty young, but, you know, she said, like, oh, like, how come this happened? Like, it doesn’t seem fair, you know. And I was able to talk to her about, you know, being made in the image of God and things like that. So, yeah, any, any other ways that you see your faith coming out and and in that story, or even just in the process of writing this book, how did, how did God maybe show Himself to you?
Marie Chan: Yeah. I mean, I think it’s really that letter that really stood out to me. My editor and I had conversations. He’s Asian American too, which I really appreciate, because he really understood the nuances of culture that I wanted to highlight in this book. And one thing we discussed was Mamie’s mother uses non standard English in her letter, and we’re like, should we correct the grammar or the spelling? And I was like, you know, I want to keep it exactly as it is, because I think about all those times that, like I had to translate for my parents when they couldn’t speak English that fluently, and sometimes they felt like maybe scared to raise their voice or speak up. And I wanted to emphasize especially to Asian American families that are maybe sometimes discouraged from speaking out when they see an injustice to say, It’s okay if you don’t speak fluent English, if you see an injustice, you should stand up.
But I also wanted to emphasize that concept of imago dei in each person. Because, again, like I said, diversity can sound like this trendy thing. But I wanted to say there is a foundational, timeless truth that each of us have inherent worth and value because we’re made in the image of God, and you know that can’t be taken away from you. It’s not based on these accolades either.
Like it’s great that the Tate family had that court victory. But we can see too, there was an obstruction of justice afterwards, when, you know, the states, the Superintendent, you know, contacted the State Assembly, and they sent, they have this, you know, they try to go through legislation to obstruct justice. And so, you know, things, things can change, and it’s, it’s, it’s heartbreaking, but then to know, like, okay, regardless of what society says about me, I can have confidence. You know, I’m loved by God. I the way He created me, uniquely with this unique cultural background is a good thing. And so I just wanted to really highlight that, because that’s something that I think children can hold on to regardless of what’s going on around them.
Aaron Lee: And you did a great job of doing it, because I was able to have that convo with my daughter.
Marie Chan: I’m so glad to hear that!
Aaron Lee: It was an important moment for me. So thank you for that. We need to end our conversation, but before we started recording, we talked about how it’s just incredible that Mamie is a real person, and I’m really glad I get to talk to you, an author who’s also a real person behind this book. Anything you want to share, just on dealing with like history, you know, and putting it out there for people to see.
Marie Chan: Yeah, yeah. I am really thankful for the Tate family. They were so generous to share their historic photographs with me, to let me interview them. And I’m also thankful for just, I really think the whole village, you know, of people like, you know, Asian American professors, historians, different people that gave me different insights into the book, and one of the professors gave me access to a digitized recording of Mamie Tape in her 90s talking about the case, so I could actually hear her voice.
And I think what’s significant to me in hearing her talk about the case is I didn’t hear any bitterness in her voice. You know her great granddaughter remembered her as a very kind, gentle soul. And you hear that like. Despite the nasty things that were said about you know her and the Chinese at the time, like, yeah, you just hear like this confidence, but not bitterness. And I think that’s significant too.
And I think it’s just really important to also take the time to find those histories like, I know, in Asian culture, like we very we value the elderly a lot, and to take time to listen to to learn their stories, because there’s a lot there. But yeah, I just think it was like a detective search. You know, I talk about searching for treasure in my book, and it was kind of like that to look through all these primary sources and even, you know, talk to people at the National Archives. I mean, it was just a lot of people that helped me, and it wasn’t just me on my own doing this.
So I’m really thankful, because each time I talk to someone, they shed light on something new. And so yeah, I’m really thankful that at the end of this month, I will get to go to Mamie Tape’s great granddaughter’s home and where Mamie lived, and also go to her great, great, great grandchildren’s um, schools and share “Mamie Takes a Stand” with them. And so I just feel like, yeah, that will be a full circle moment. So I’m really excited about that.
Aaron Lee: Yeah, that’s awesome. Marie, thank you so much for sharing Mamie’s very real story. And thank you for sharing your real life with us too, and honestly, thank you for letting me kind of see how real God is too in all of this. Thank you so much for your work.
Marie Chan: Thank you.
Photo Credit: Joshua Earle