Julius Kim, president of The Gospel Coalition, gave the second first keynote of the AALC Conference. This talk unpacks and connects Christ’s prophetic office to the contemporary preacher as he is called to discern God’s truth, goodness, and beauty and testify to it in his words and in his deeds. You can view his session here.
SOLA Network had the privilege of speaking to Julius Kim, the president of the Gospel Coalition. Julius talked to Steve Chang, council chairman of SOLA Network. They discussed what it has been like for Julius to lead the influential evangelical TGC. They also discussed how Julius’ Asian American heritage has helped him in this role.
Watch the interview, listen to the audio, or read the transcript below. Please note the transcript has only been lightly edited and may contain spelling or grammatical errors.
Steve Chang: Hey, so we’re here with Julius Kim, the President of TGC. How long has it been?
Julius Kim: It’s been two years. A little over two years now.
Steve Chang: So you count your days, along with the pandemic then?
Julius Kim: Exactly. So became president in February of 2020, then the pandemic hit one month later.
Steve Chang: Oh, my goodness.
Julius Kim: So it’s quite a challenging first year.
Steve Chang: Okay. In addition, you’re taking over for Tim Keller?
Julius Kim: Well, Tim Keller. Yes. So we have two founders, as you know. Don Carson and Tim Keller founded the organization. And Don was the president. So Don Carson was the president of TGC. So he retired. And then now I have the privilege of trying to fill those shoes.
Steve Chang: Oh, my. So take us behind the scenes, a little bit. How has it been being the president of perhaps one of the most influential Christian evangelical organizations, at least, you know, among the conservative Christians in the country, perhaps in the world? How has it been leading that organization?
Julius Kim: Yeah on the one hand, it’s been a tremendous honor and privilege to be able to be part of an organization that actually brings like minded Christian leaders together around the gospel, I mean, what can be greater, right? But at the same time, at the end of the day, we’re just a para-church. Even though we’re large, and we have a large influence and a large impact and a large platform. We’re not the church. Christ’s bride is the church, not TGC, or any other parachurch. So it’s, I think it’s been healthy to, to remember who we are and who we actually serve. So we serve Christ and His Church. And so we exist to serve the church. That’s so I think that’s been humbling and good to remind ourselves of that.
But in addition to all that, there’s been some unique challenges too and, and for me, as an Asian American, I think there’s been a lot of pressure on the one hand, it’s an honor. But I always want to it’s a challenge not to shame my people, so to speak. And I always live with that kind of constant pressure, of not wanting to do things to shame, my family shame, my culture and shame my Asian American history, and my people so to speak. And so it’s a it’s a constant battle that I face, not to be a people pleaser, and things like that and continue to keep Jesus center and keep him first and keep him in front, so to speak.
Steve Chang: You are naturally by personality. If I stated, a people person in a positive way your your relational, yeah, right, yeah. But during these years, there’s the political climate where it’s been one of the most divisive time. And you’re, as an Asian American, I’m sure you’re pulled both ways, and you’re not woken up or you’re too woke, how are you doing that?
Julius Kim: Yeah, that’s, it’s been challenging Steve there’s no doubt about it. And TGC, prior to these last couple of years, has been able to bring together leaders of various stripes and colors and creeds, etc, around our foundation documents and around the gospel. But, you know, the racial tensions, the political polarization has had its impact not only on our nation, but even on a group, like an organization like TGC. And so it’s been harder, I think, to stay a coalition.
Because it seems like, whereas the gospel is what keeps us together. It seems like now it’s the gospel plus something like gospel plus this issue or gospel plus that issue. And I think that’s created some confusion, but also some division and, and that’s been challenging.
And but at the same time, I actually think of it as a wonderful opportunity. Because in the midst of all these challenges, I think the Lord is prompting us to really ask the question, what really brings us together? Is it the way we vote? Is it whether we wear a mask or not? Or is it really the gospel, and all of its simplicity and profundity?
And so while it’s been incredibly challenging to bring together, like minded people around the gospel, it’s also been, I think, a wonderful opportunity to just re-clarify again, right? What is the gospel? And why is it important still? And can we be together around that?
Steve Chang: So far as you’re concerned, it brings you back to the purity of the reason why TGC exists, is the purity of the gospel. But what you struggle with, is when people want to add to the Gospel and that secondary thing is a litmus test almost. And so that’s what you’re trying to navigate?
Julius Kim: That’s exactly right. And I think, I think for a lot of people, their prioritization has become a little skewed, right? And so no one wants to say that politics, for example, is a bad thing. In fact, it exists all around us. But it’s when our political views or convictions seem to, at least, at least in our rhetoric, perhaps not in our hearts, but at least in our rhetoric, seem to be more important or, or higher priority than, let’s say, the Gospel. And at least the rhetoric has just created a lot of division and discouragement. And so it’s just, it’s an opportunity to think for that clarity, what’s priority? What’s secondary? What’s primary? What’s secondary? What’s tertiary? And, and, but also to say, and when we disagree, can we disagree charitably, in good faith, and say, we’re still brothers in Christ, because of this primary issue called the gospel. We may differ, let’s say on a secondary issue, like politics, and that’s okay. We can still have this conversation in good faith. But right now, we’re just not seeing a lot of good faith.
Steve Chang: Do you feel like being an Asian American, it gives you an advantage in some ways?
Julius Kim: Yeah. That’s a great question. I would I would like to think so. I’d have to think about that more. But I think because of my unique bicultural upbringing, having lived in Korea, been raised in Korea, but also coming here. I think it gives me a unique, I think, compassion and sensitivity to various viewpoints.
For example, like, just the fact that I don’t really feel like an American, and I don’t really feel like a Korean. When I was growing up, that was really difficult for me, because I was really struggling with my own identity. So I traveled to Korea with my family thinking, Oh, now I finally feel at home. And I didn’t. And then I come back to the states, after like a summer vacation with my family, Oh, I’m at home now. I’m like, no, because I still encounter discrimination and prejudice. But I encountered that in both countries.
And so early on, when I was young, I found that to be a disadvantage, but now, I actually looked back at that history, and I’m so grateful for it. Because it provided me a different perspective on my life here on Earth. That I actually, frankly, don’t belong here. That I’m on a pilgrimage, that this is not my home. Korea is not my home, America is not my home, my home is in heaven.
But in the meantime, can I then take the ethics of heaven and allow it to actually change the way I think, change the way I speak and live, whether I’m in Korea or America. And it contexturize that heavenly ethic, in whatever country I’m in. And so the Lord has placed me in America. And so it gives me there’s just kind of that longing for another home. But also this recognition that this other home that I belong to, has different ways of thinking and living. Now, how do I bring that to bear upon this unique time in place? And so it just gives me that extra sensitivity, perhaps, but also a little bit more clarity of who I am and where I am. And so yeah, so all that to say, I’m just so grateful for my bicultural, Asian American heritage. Because I think it gives me that kind of sensitivity as I, can I call it an eschatological Pilgrim, that I don’t belong here. And so no matter what happens, on the one hand, I don’t need to be so discouraged, I can still have hope, because I belong to another world.
Steve Chang: So this dissonance you feel while a lot of people consider that as a liability for you, or that that’s an asset, potentially, it helps you to understand those who feel marginalized. And, and you are allowed to, in some ways, bridge the gap between those on the very right or the very left. Hey, I can kind of understand both sides.
Julius Kim: Absolutely. And what’s interesting as a Korean American, when we even talk about race relations in America, it tends to be a black and white conversation. I’m neither black, nor am I white. And what’s interesting in my conversations with black brothers and white brothers and sisters, is that when I talk to my black brothers and sisters, they’re like, Oh, you get us, because you’ve experienced racism and prejudice and being marginalized and oppressed. And I said, Actually, I do. So I can sympathize and empathize with their history, not in the same way, but I can understand it, I think, and be sensitive to that.
And then when I when I talk to my my white brothers and sisters say, but Julius, as an Asian American, you’ve made it, you’re a model minority, you’ve assimilated, you went to the best schools, you, you’ve now reached the pinnacle of your career, and in a white dominated kind of evangelical space, you are a leader now. So you, you get what we’re saying, right? I actually, I do. And I understand some of the struggles that you have. And when you have conversations with our Black and Brown Brothers and sisters, and so I think it’s a unique opportunity, even for me to be just a sensitive listener, and learner so that ultimately, I can leverage the position I’m in for the sake of unity. Yeah, so…
Steve Chang: And no offense, but neither Tim Keller, nor Carson could have done that.
Julius Kim: Well, they’ve done a lot. And I don’t, I would, yes, well, they don’t have the kind of unique bicultural experience. And yet, yeah. So in that way, I’m very grateful that the Lord has given me that history that hopefully I can use, for the for the, let me just say it this way. My past is not a liability, but a benefit for my present and my future. And I think, I think the Lord has given me that opportunity.
Steve Chang: And it is something God’s given to you to be an edifying thing for the greater good.
Julius Kim: That’s exactly right. And so one of the things I would say to a lot of Asian American church leaders is that instead of being so discouraged about some of the challenges you face because of your Asian American heritage, culture, background, is actually to say to actually steward it well, he’s it’s actually a gift. Being Asian American at this time right now, steward it well for the sake of the kingdom, because not many people have that unique experience and opportunities that you will have. And so be prayerful, be sensitive to the spirit, and then steward that for the sake of the gospel.
Steve Chang: That’s wonderful, can you look at the camera? Asian American brothers and sisters who bemoan the fact that they’re in an immigrant church I grew up in a bicultural home, you know, or whatever it is. Yeah. And just tell them no, tell us. Yeah, this is your God’s given that to you and stored it. Can you tell us that again?
Julius Kim: Absolutely. You know, what I would say to many of you in Asian American places, or Asian American churches of ministry, I know, I know, it’s hard. I know, it’s challenging, but God has placed you there for a reason. And God has given you a very unique gift, which is your bicultural heritage and history. Now your challenge is going to be how can I steward this gift? Well, to be a blessing, not only to your local community, but to a larger community that needs your voice, your wisdom and your experience, because trust me, you will get opportunities. Steward it well for God’s kingdom.