SOLA Network had the privilege of speaking to Soojin Park, the director of Youth Ministry and CCI at Christ Central Presbyterian Church in Centreville, Virginia. She is also a SOLA Editorial Board member.
Soojin Park talked to Aaron Lee, social media manager at SOLA Network about the blindspots and beauty of the complementarian church. We hope you are challenged by this important interview in which they discuss:
- The blindspots and beauties of the complementarian church
- How to help women leaders feel heard
- Encouragements and challenges to male leaders within the complementarian church
Watch the interview on YouTube, listen to the audio on Podcasts, or read the transcript below. Please note the transcript has only been lightly edited and may contain spelling or grammatical errors.
Aaron Lee: We’re here at the Asian American leadership conference. I have some questions for you here. And we’ll go off them as well. The first one, it says that you are a vocational Christian worker at a complementarian PCA church. What do you see are some of the blind spots of the complementarian church? And what are some beauties of the complementarian church? So, blind spots and beauties.
Soojin Park: Yeah, I mean, it kind of feels like a little bit of a loaded question. (laughing) But just like I mentioned earlier today, in the panel, I do think when, in the complementarian church, there’s not a partnership, but it’s just more like a dominance of one group over the other, when, you know, with good intentions, but kind of assuming the perspective of the other and not listening and hearing them out. And there’s decisions made without listening to the women in your church… I do think that’s a huge blind spot. That means there’s half of your church that you don’t get to understand their perspective, what they’re experiencing, what their opinions are, what kind of wisdom they have to share. And so I do think that’s a huge blind spot. But on the flip side, I think when it’s done well, I think when there is a partnership, when men and women can work together, and even when the elders and the pastors who are the decision makers, they listen to the perspective of the women and hear from them and gain from them… like their wisdom, too, I think that’s when you have better decisions made for the entirety of the church. And that’s when I think you really reflect God’s image in a fuller way, man and woman.
Aaron Lee: You’re absolutely right. That was a loaded question. (laughing)
Soojin Park: (laughing) A little bit. Yeah.
Aaron Lee: I want to know about your story, then. I want to know about your testimony growing up. Were you always complementarian? Were you born as a complimentarian? (laughing) And I guess ultimately, how did you end up in your position?
Soojin Park: Yeah, you know, I don’t really think I knew what complementarianism was growing up. And I think there’s a lot of people who still don’t really know. Right? And so I think a lot of our Korean American immigrant churches are just complementarian by design. No matter, you know, they are saying this is our theology here, there. I just think there’s a lot of cultural implications there. A lot of presuppositions there, in terms of like being Korean American. And so I think I just grew up thinking that women don’t do much in the church, except for maybe, you know, hospitality, being in the kitchen serving, which are all important things. But when it came to like teaching or being on stage and leading worship in any way, or having any kind of visible leadership position, I didn’t really grow up seeing that as an option, especially when it came to any kind of… more of like a meaningful teaching role. I didn’t see any women in that. So I actually… I didn’t know that women could even go to seminary and be trained until I went to college, and I went to a church where the pastor’s wife was… we also called her Pastor, you know, she also went to seminary, and she was trained in that way. And she taught us and she was so knowledgeable, and she just had this really big vision for the Word guiding your life. Like she was one of the few people I met where any kind of issue or problem I had, and I would come to her, she could point me back to Scripture and help me to understand my life and the world through really like a biblical worldview. And so that was really the first time where I realized like, oh, like, women can learn this stuff and teach this stuff, too. And so that’s when I first started thinking, maybe that’s something I want to do. (laughing)
Aaron Lee: I remember we talked about that before. It’s a beautiful story honestly. And now, you’re getting asked to speak at conferences. You’re the one doing the teaching. What does this mean to you to be able to have this… is there a responsibility?
Soojin Park: I mean, a little bit. Yeah. I mean, I think I still feel really unqualified to be honest and unprepared in a lot of these situations. And I do think sometimes I feel like it’s because there’s just not a lot of other women who are in my position, right? But I think on the flip side of that, especially my senior pastor, he’s always encouraging me and challenging me and pushing me to think of it… well, you have a privilege, you have this special opportunity where you’re really supported and you are getting trained. And so, like, take that and feel that responsibility, right? He challenges me a little bit in that way… in these, in your… don’t give up those opportunities easily and to be there and to be visible so that other especially Asian American women can see and know that, oh, like, this is something I can do too, and there are women out there who can teach me and teach me the Bible. And that’s something I can do too.
Aaron Lee: Well, I want to encourage you, I think you do a great job.
Soojin Park: Thank you.
Aaron Lee: Like I said, I don’t want to pigeonhole you. Yeah, you do a great job. Here’s one. It says: What would you say to women leaders within the church who may feel unheard?
Soojin Park: I’m sure there are more women who work in churches who feel unheard than heard. Presently, I think, especially in Asian American churches, as well. And I think one encouragement would be to break out of the mold. And don’t be afraid of that. I think often, I find that some women can feel unheard, but they don’t realize that they are allowed to speak up about certain things, or that oftentimes, their pastors don’t even know they’re feeling that way because it’s just been the norm for so many people. And no one’s ever broken out of that. I’ve had multiple conversations where I would share how I’m feeling about something or how I perceive something. And my pastor was shocked. He just never considered that, you know, women on his staff could feel that way. Or that this was possible. And so I think, yeah, I would say, give your pastor the benefit of the doubt, and be bold, and you know, be gracious. But speak up, and you know, share how you were feeling, share your perspective. Because it’s an important perspective. And I think it’s really hard for us to believe that our perspective is important, especially as Asian American women. We are often wanting to hide, wanting not to be in the limelight, wanting to do the background work. But I think it’s not being prideful, because you share your perspective. I think it’s worth thinking that my perspective is valuable to my pastor, and I want to share those things. And that’s a good thing.
Aaron Lee: Yeah. What’s your official role at your church again?
Soojin Park: Yeah, so I do youth ministry. And then I oversee a ministry called Christ Central Institute, which is like our Adult Education Ministry.
Aaron Lee: Can we talk about that? The video that we stole from you was when you spoke to the youth, right? Yeah. I have the title right here: How to Talk About Anti-Asian Racism with Our Youth. And so we have worked, where youth ministry is very important, obviously. So for you to talk to youth about these issues, can you encourage, you know, the watchers? How can they invest in their youth to speak to these issues? Right? Because they’re getting info from the world, right? So can you speak to that? And then you can also talk about the Institute, too, and how that plays a role if it does or not?
Soojin Park: Yeah, I mean, I think with youth ministry, you know, one of the things I think about a lot is just kind of like long term, right? Like, I want to think of how can I help my students be plugged into the church, into the life of the church, and to be invested in their faith for the long run? And one of the things that I’ve been thinking about a lot is how I feel like it’s not really youth programs, but at the end of the day, it’s how do we help our students make sense of the things that they are experiencing and witnessing in their everyday life in light of the gospel? In, you know, with a biblical worldview? And I, when I think about, you know, my students are not going to go off to college and think, “wow, like, I had a boring youth group experience, I’m not going to be a Christian anymore.” In fact, they’re going to actually say, “my roommate is openly gay, but he’s the nicest person I’ve met. And I don’t know how to make sense of that with what I’ve been taught at church” or “I’m seeing inherent racism, just blatant racism. And my church is not speaking against it. How do I make sense of that?” Right? And so it’s these everyday issues, that students are going to see… that when they can’t make sense of it, because their church hasn’t taught them how to make sense of it in a biblical worldview, that’s when faith starts to deconstruct, right? That’s what we see. And so I think my encouragement and challenge to youth workers is don’t be afraid to address those issues. And in fact, of course, like at the heart of ministry is the gospel right? At the end of the day, we are trying to help people come to know the Lord as their personal Lord and Savior. But all of that will be clouded if we don’t help our students to see that our Scripture, the living Word of God, is sufficient enough to answer the questions that we have about these issues. And I think when we don’t give them these answers, they’re going to think that the gospel is not sufficient, that the Scripture iis not sufficient. And so yeah, I would say, go for it. Don’t be afraid. And think of it as just a really important part of our youth ministry today. I think it would be a disservice to our students if we didn’t engage those topics.
Aaron Lee: When you are speaking to the youth, I’m assuming it’s boys and girls. How do you approach these topics with the boys versus the girls? Is there a difference?
Soojin Park: No, I try to just keep it pretty much the same. Like when I address the students, unless it’s a specific gender related issue, you know, sometimes I will do something separate. But overall, I try to just speak to them plainly and simply the same. And I actually think that’s intentional, too, because I want our students, both boys and girls to see that your female youth director can speak to you in a way that’s the same as if a male pastor was speaking to you. There’s no difference here. And so I think that’s intentional on my end.
Aaron Lee: Let’s flip it again. What would you say to male leaders within the complimentarian church? Yeah, getting out of the student mindset going into the male leaders. I guess you can talk to female leaders, too. (laughing)
Soojin Park: Yeah, I guess to male leaders. It’s the other side of what I said to the sisters, right? It’s that for the male leaders, please consider that your sisters have a different perspective. And then sometimes, I think many times Asian American pastors, what they’ve experienced in their lives, what they’ve grown up with, and what’s been the norm for them… oftentimes, it lacks a female perspective, because that’s just historically what it’s been. And so I think just for male leaders to consider that your sisters on staff or you know, volunteering with you, they may be feeling and thinking things that you have no idea. And so offer them a safe space to share what they’re thinking, to share how they’re feeling, and ask for feedback about how ministry can be done better at your church to serve both men and women.
Aaron Lee: You’ve done several different types of things. You do the panel talk, you do writing. Do you see these issues about the complimentarian church and everything, how are they best addressed? Because there’s a sense where like, yeah, we can preach to the audience, right? Or the congregation. You can go to a conference like this. And you know, that you’re, you know, probably… people might feel the same way as you do, right? So it’s like, friendly. But, I mean, do you feel like for you, you’re trying to persuade people, necessarily? I’m trying to get into your headspace. What are the different avenues that you take?
Soojin Park: I, yeah, I think it’s, you’re right. It’s complicated. Because when we say these things, like, you know, abuse is bad or like making women feel left out is bad, like, those are all things that everyone will agree on. So I’m not necessarily trying to persuade anyone on these are the bad things and these are the good things. But I think, often what happens is, I’m just trying to share my perspective, to particularly the male pastors to help them see, this is what I see and experience from my point of view. And oftentimes, more than not, it is shocking to them. And it is surprising, because they’ve just never had anyone say it to them. And so I always told my friends and you know, my peers at church that I’m never saying anything that’s super new, I’m not ever saying anything that’s, you know, revolutionary. I’m never making anything that’s special. But I think I’m just saying something that a lot of people feel and think. It’s just people haven’t been given the opportunity in the space to do so. And so, if anything, I don’t know why. But you know, when I’ve been given these opportunities, I feel like I really just am speaking on behalf of other women, not just myself. And so, yeah, I always say, you know, there are probably hundreds, if not thousands of women out there who if they were given the same opportunities and education and support from pastors that I received, they would probably say it and do it way better than I could. I think it’s just kind of the timing of things. And yeah, so I never feel like I’m trying to persuade people of this, you know, new concept or something grand, but I’m just trying to share from my perspective.
Aaron Lee: When you have younger people and they’re learning about this, and they’re forming their opinions, right? Maybe they don’t agree. How do you still help them? Taking into account that yeah, they’re still young minds, they’re still forming their opinions about things. But you see them going a certain way.
Soojin Park: Yeah. I think what I see most with that is women or young girls who are younger than me, who questioned why I’m complementarian… who, they don’t understand why someone like me who, you know, can be outspoken and believe that women should have certain opportunities, why wouldn’t I just be egalitarian? I get that a lot. And so I think when there is someone who disagrees with me, I just try to share them, these are my reasons why, and these are my convictions, but also affirming, I understand where you’re coming from as well. I have been there. And I have thought through those things. And, you know, I also affirm them, that this to me, this is clearly a secondary issue. Yeah. And that we can agree to disagree. And I actually think young people in the church today need to be able to see that there can be disagreement with peace, and kindness and grace.
Aaron Lee: That’s so good. Yeah, I want to end with… that’s very clear. That’s great. You are theologically trained. What is it, PhD?
Soojin Park: No, no, no. (laughing) I’m finishing my seminary degree. Yeah.
Aaron Lee: But what would you say to people who are trying to talk to these issues, but maybe they don’t feel equipped? And it is still important to talk about these things?
Soojin Park: I think a lot of women feel that way. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah, I think so. And I think there’s a lot of things that can be said that do not require a seminary degree, I think, yes, I have the privilege of being seminary trained. And so maybe I have more language and words to put to the things I’m thinking and feeling. But I just want to affirm especially the sisters out there, I don’t have anything more than you do. Like you are thinking and feeling exactly the same things I am, it’s just, I yeah, I have the advantage of being labeled certain things. But you have just as much of a responsibility and a right to be able to share your experiences and perspective as well. And I think, you know, go to your pastor and ask them to help you process these things, right? Go to female leaders you know, other mentors that you may have to help you put words to the things that you were thinking. And, you know, we live in the age of the internet, right, where there are so many good resources online. And so I would say go online, go to trusted sources. But yeah, go to see how are other people shaping their language, their words to explain how they’re what they’re experiencing.
Aaron Lee: Okay, we’re running out of time. I’ll give you one more. Maybe this is hard. Maybe it’s easy for you. I’m not sure. What is the gospel and complementarianism and egalitarianism? Is the gospel bigger than these things? Is the gospel these things?
Soojin Park: That’s a good question.
Aaron Lee: Because you just said it’s a secondary issue. So I want to hear it straight from Soojin’s heart.
Soojin Park: Absolutely. Yes, to me, complementarianism, egalitarianism, that’s a secondary issue. To me, the Gospel is more important. The Gospel comes first. But that doesn’t mean that these things are unimportant. And I think absolutely, the gospel being primary has implications to the very real things in our lives that impact us, such as what gender we are and how that shapes our church experiences. And I think Jesus dying on the cross for us for our sins, absolutely, but I think him being resurrected and bringing new creation to us, that heals every aspect of our life, including the way we interact with each other as men and women. And so absolutely, I believe the Gospel is first. But I believe that gender roles – super important.