Editor’s Note: This interview is from SOLA Conference 2021. Find more resources and videos here.
In this interview, Dr. Sharon Kim, Professor of Sociology at Cal State Fullerton, shares her insights on sociological trends amongst Asian Americans, the creation of third spaces for worship, and the future of the Asian American Church.
Below is a transcript of the interview. It has been edited for length and clarity. You can listen to the audio here.
My name is Sharon Kim, and I’m a professor of sociology at Cal State Fullerton. I’m also the pastor of leadership development at The Garden Church.
Q: What are some sociological trends in the Asian American church?
Most recently, the one thing that really stands out is the solidarity that we saw among Asian American Christians over standing up against anti-Asian hate. In my lifetime, this is the first time that we’ve witnessed thousands of Asian Americans across the nation—Asian American Christians, in particular—uniting together in solidarity to have our voices heard. So that was something unique. And I think it’s a watershed moment in our history to see Asian American Christians coming together in the way that we did.
Actually, I spoke at one of the rallies, and it was quite moving to see the big signs that people were carrying—signs that said, “We belong here. Racism is a virus.” For so long, Asian Americans have been told to be silent—that it’s too risky to speak out. Because if you do, something much worse could happen to you. So in many ways, we’ve been silenced. But to see that level of solidarity across the nation and for people to say, “No, we’re not going to be silent, and we are going to speak out”—that was something unique and exciting in terms of what we experienced as Asian American Christians.
But before we go into this, it’s also important for us to really understand some key terms, especially two terms, that tend to be conflated together. And those two terms are “ethnicity,” and “race.” People sometimes use those terms interchangeably, but they’re not.
“Ethnicity” refers to cultural variables—things like food, customs, values, nation of origin—that bind people together. So an ethnic group would be Korean, Chinese, and Japanese. But when we talk about race—when we talk about Asian—it’s a different category. It’s more of an umbrella category that brings groups of different ethnicities because of the way they look. It’s primarily due to those physical characteristics.
Here in the United States, the term “Asian American” first gained popularity in the late 60s and early 70s. And it was a highly political term because it was pan-Asian solidarity primarily amongst students in San Francisco State University and UC Berkeley coming together under this pan-Asian solidarity to push for ethnic studies in universities across the nation. So it had that very politically charged nuance to the term “Asian American.”
But today, I think that the term “Asian American” is used more in a neutral, descriptive way—to describe a certain group. But there’s still a sense of solidarity; there’s still a sense of a shared experience or a shared identity, and of this idea that we have something in common as Asian Americans. At one level, the commonalities could be more cultural things like our values, or food, or having grown up in immigrant households, at one level. But on another level, that solidarity, what it means to be Asian American, that is defined by being objects of oppression and marginalization. So there’s that element of what binds us together as Asian Americans. That’s very much what we’re seeing in our society today. And with the rise in the Asian American Christian movement and our voices being heard, it’s a solidarity that’s formed as a response to discrimination and racism.
Q: How do Asian Americans fit in in the overall racial discussion of America?
That’s a good question. It’s actually a very complex issue. We do know that our society is very racialized. Race is an important variable, very much alive and well. And we also know that racism against Asian Americans, although it hasn’t really been highlighted, history hasn’t really gained the attention of mainstream media per se.
But racism against Asian Americans certainly predates COVID-19; it’s been around. And what we’re seeing today, especially with all the rhetoric about the China virus, is that it has a historical parallel of the racism—the xenophobia and racism against the Chinese in the latter 19th century. And there was a lot of talk about how the Chinese were bringing leprosy, malaria, and smallpox, and for that reason, we had to shut the doors. Those were some of the arguments that led to the passage of the Chinese Exclusion Act in 1882.
So we know that racism has been alive and well; it’s not something new that we’re just seeing currently. And if we think about Asian Americans in this country, when we think about how they’re stereotyped, how we’re stereotyped, there are two primary stereotypes of Asian Americans that are both problematic.
The first one is this idea that Asian Americans are perpetual foreigners. It doesn’t matter how many generations your family has lived in this country. That’s irrelevant. That somehow if you look Asian, you’re foreign and that you’re not truly an authentic American. That’s why we get questions asked to us like, “Where are you from? Where are you really from?” Or, “Your English is so great.”
There’s this real strong sense in this country that is pretty much throughout the decades and throughout the history of the United States that Asians don’t belong here. Being in Southern California, we might experience this a little less. But we have to recognize that this is an exceptional situation compared to what Asian Americans experience throughout the nation.
Recently an Olympian, the snowboarder Chloe Kim, came out and spoke publicly about the incredible amount of racism she’s experienced after winning the gold medal. People have said, “Go back to China,” and “Stop taking gold medals from our White American girls.” She shared very openly that she’s seen as that perpetual foreigner. One of the things we see during this COVID season is people saying, “Go back to China.” That’s one of the things. “Go back to China; you don’t belong here. Take your virus and go back home.” This, again, says perpetual foreigner and that you’re not American because of the way you look. So at one hand, we have that.
The other real dominant stereotype that are projected onto Asians is this “model minority.” There’s this narrative that says Asian Americans are successful in this country educationally and economically because of their cultural values—such as values for education, respect for elders, delayed gratification, hard work. And there’s nothing wrong with hard work, and there’s nothing wrong with respect for education—these are all great things. Some people may ask the question, “Well, what’s so bad about being called the model minority? It’s actually a compliment. Why are you complaining about it? You should receive it and see it as a good thing. Why are you upset about model minority?” Well, the answer to that is, the model minority is not a compliment.
The main problem with this model minority myth is that it pits Asian Americans against other minority groups. That’s why we’re called the model minority. Model for whom? You’re a model for somebody. You’re a model for the Black community and the Brown community. That’s this the unspoken message there.
The term “model minority” was first coined in the early 1970s, when the Civil Rights Movement was calling national attention to the problem of racism and structural inequality. So it was within that context that the term “model minority” was first coined. It’s like, “Hey, look at the Asians that are working hard. And with all of their wonderful cultural values, they’re able to make it in this country as a minority. So, Black communities and Brown communities—stop complaining about structural inequality, and just follow the model minority.” So it was really pitting one group against another.
The other reason why it’s so problematic is because the model minority myth focuses on these culturally supposed cultural variables without taking into account structural realities. And those structural realities are really important because the majority of the East Asian Americans that you see today, the overwhelming majority came after the enactment of the 1965 Immigration Act. That Act was huge in shaping the demographics of the Asian American community because that Act privileged immigrants who have education and who have professional skills that this company, this country, needs. So there was a brain drain from Asia. There was selective immigration.
We look at East Asian immigrants—they came with education, they came with skills, they came with money, and they came with immigrant optimism. So there were all these structural realities that were not taken into account. When you see that and you compare them, you see that the children that grew up in these households benefited from these structural privileges. That, along with the fact that Asians Americans haven’t experienced hundreds of years of oppression in this country.
So it doesn’t make sense to compare Asians with other minority groups that may not have had access to the type of privileges that Asian Americans have enjoyed. So as Asian Americans, it’s really important for us, as members of the society, as people who are American who love America, who love our country—it’s very important for us to be educated and informed about our own histories, as well as the histories of other communities. That way, we’re not going to just blindly embrace this narrative of the model minority myth.
For us as a church, during the pandemic last year—my husband and I, we pastor a church—and for last year, during the whole racial justice movements with the Black Lives Matter movement, the Holy Spirit really put on our hearts and convicted both of us very strongly that this is an issue where God was calling us to educate the people in our church. Because racial justice, it’s not just a political issue. It’s not an issue just for the Black community. It’s a problem that all Christians need to wrestle with.
So we really felt that the first and most important step is to inform and educate the members—to disciple our church members so that they have an understanding of the African American experience in this country. And when you have that understanding, you grow in empathy, and you grow in a passion to stand up for justice.
So we spent maybe a month or so just focused. I sent them all kinds of articles, podcasts, videos—everything. For our church, I held personal office hours weekly for people to come on Zoom, where they could ask whatever questions they wanted about race, about what was happening in our country.
We also partner with an organization called Faith and Prejudice that united hundreds of churches around the nation for one week of education. So they had people come and talk about structural inequalities, and the housing market. Scholars give these lectures. So as a church, we all watched together, and then went into small groups to discuss what we watched. That was really an important thing for us. It was an important time of learning, and it was an important time for God to stretch our hearts to have a greater understanding of what it means to really stand up for justice and be educated.
Q: What are some distinctive markers of Asian American Christian spaces?
So the book, Faith of Our Own was released about 10 years ago now. Boy, it’s already been that long. The findings in that book were based on actually 10 years of research of 22 different churches in the Southern California area. These are churches that were started by second-generation—1.5 and second-generation—Korean Americans.
The central finding over the 10 years of research is that second-generation Korean Americans, instead of completely leaving the immigrant church (because there was all this talk at the time that there was a silent exodus and second-generation Asian Americans were leaving Christianity leaving churches altogether) were not just leaving the immigrant church and abandoning their faith. They were not necessarily going into White mainstream churches, either. But based on my empirical research, they were creatively fashioning their own, “hybrid third spaces,” which is what I call it in my in my book. Hybrid third spaces—independent churches—where these independent churches were functioning in a way like spiritual laboratories and fashioning a unique spirituality.
So in my interviews with the pastors of these churches, there was a real sense that they wanted to create sort of an amalgam—a unique expression of spirituality—where they were taking what they saw as the best parts of Western Christianity and the immigrant Korean immigrant Christianity, and creating a hybrid spirituality. That was something that I thought was fascinating, and I’ve documented in that book.
If someone were to ask me, “What were some of the strains and what were some of the interesting distinctives of that spirituality?” Well, at the time, when I was doing the research, most of the pastors wanted to preserve the Korean style of prayer. That emphasis, that passionate spirituality, that spirituality that embodies your body, your emotions, and everything—that hot, fiery spirituality. And it shows up in prayer: “tongsung kido.” It shows up in early morning prayers: “saebyeok kido.”
So all these different expressions of spirituality—that was something that they wanted to incorporate in their churches. And they also wanted to incorporate a more communal understanding or a collective understanding of faith, as opposed to the hyper-individualistic spirituality that we may see in dominant culture churches. So that’s what was their heart intent at the time.
Now, 10 years later, looking back and see, they’ve all evolved. Among the 22 churches that I’ve studied, not all of them exist today. Some of them did fold. A lot of new ones also birthed from that time as well. But the emphasis on the prayer component, I don’t really see that as much. Somehow, that part has been gone to the side. Another researcher could come on the scene and document why that is or explain why that is. That is less. I don’t see pastors going to the mat for that.
But the communal, the collectivistic understanding that we are a body, we’re a family, we’re not individual units, and it’s not “me and God” but it’s “we and God”—that aspect is still very much present in these churches. And it’s something that perhaps may look different than what you would see in a predominantly White church.
Q: What do you envision for the future of the Asian American church?
I’d like to see the Asian American church—there are several things that come to my mind. But I would like to see the Asian American church embrace a more robust understanding of justice. That justice is not a political issue; it is a biblical issue.
Justice and mercy are really big themes that run throughout Scripture. If you’re reading your Bible, there’s no way to get away from this. There are over two thousand verses that show God’s heart for the poor, the marginalized, the widow, the oppressed, the foreigners. That when God says that when we share what we have, we share with the poor, when we speak up for the voiceless, when we care, fight for the marginalized, that we’re actually caring for him. He identifies with the poor. And he also says that everything we have—everything we have—has been given to him. The ability to make money, everything we have, has been given to him. And the purpose of why we have it is so that we can share with others, and we can enter into the areas of brokenness, and really be that redemptive, restorative, healing presence, wherever we see brokenness.
With the Asian American Christians and Asian American churches, I really hope and have a vision and desire to see them dream bigger dreams. What do I mean by that, dream bigger dreams? There’s so much untapped potential resources, education, network skills—so much untapped resources. How beautiful it would be if we can bring those resources together, trust them into God’s hands, and see him multiply that to feed the multitudes? And when I look at Asian American churches in particular, I think in some ways, we could dream bigger.
I think sometimes we could get very much satisfied with the smaller dreams. And I see Asian American Christian lives where those smaller dreams are economic advancement, promotion in the job, extracurriculars for your kids, bigger house, or whatever. These are smaller dreams. They’re not bad; they’re good things. But these good things can also become parasites, really sucking up the very best of our time and resources for the smaller dreams.
I really, really would love to see Asian American Christians dream big dreams, and trust God, obey God, and experience the miracle-working, multiplication power of God. To take what we have to dream big dreams. To address educational inequity, human trafficking, homelessness, global poverty, food insecurity. I mean, there are so many big issues in our world today. God cares, and he’s looking for people who will give over, who will trust our five loaves and two fish, so that God would take that and multiply it. I really see there’s so much potential in Asian American churches to move in that direction. If we will get a big dream from God, and pull our resources together, and trust God and see him multiply it in a magnificent way to do some great things, to bring healing in places where there’s brokenness. So that’s my heart. And that’s what I’d like to see Asian American Christians and churches engage more with.
Q: How has your faith in Christ shaped your vocation as a professor?
Well, my faith is the centerpiece of who I am. It’s very, very important. So I really see myself as an ambassador to my campus, the place where I work. That’s my embassy. I teach sociology and all of that, but my primary job is to represent God’s kingdom, and to represent it well.
I aim to do that by first being the best teacher I can be, to do the best research I can do, and to serve my students, to serve my colleagues, to look out for their interests above my own, and to exhibit God’s love to them in that way. So in that way, I take that mindset with me every day as I go to work, that I’m an ambassador, this is my embassy.
In a very practical way, I teach a class—sociology of religion. And it’s a class that I teach because it creates a space for students to wrestle with questions that they don’t wrestle with in any other class in the university. Questions like, what’s the purpose of religion? What does religion do for people? Can a society function without religion? And so these are sociological questions, but it also opens them up. It opens them up to the faith in many ways, even though I don’t explicitly proselytize. Of course, I don’t do that. But I do want to create spaces for people to have meaningful discussions about these really important topics. And faith—religion—is an important topic.
For more resources from SOLA Conference 2021, click here.