Editor’s Note: For more on First Baptist Chinese Church of Walnut, check out SOLA Council member Hanley Liu’s article on “Reversing the Generational Exodus.”
When the First Chinese Baptist Church of Walnut called Albert Ting to be their new senior pastor in 2014, people were excited. He had previously been a pastor in Fountain Valley before becoming a professor at Singapore Bible College, then the president of the seminary. He could preach to the tri-congregational church in three languages — English, Mandarin-Chinese, and Cantonese-Chinese.
But people were shocked to hear his vision for the church.
“The English congregation is the future of the Chinese American church. If the church is to thrive, the English must lead and anchor the entire church.”
As SOLA Council member Hanley Liu wrote:
“I couldn’t believe my ears. He was saying things no English leader would dare to say in public. It was both shocking and refreshing. What’s more, he repeated this statement over and over again — in staff meetings, in the presence of lay leaders, and before the Chinese-speaking congregations. This idea was now baked into our church’s culture, and everyone knew it was part of the vision.”
Pastor Steve Chang, a SOLA Council Member, had a chance to talk with Pastor Albert Ting for a conversation about FCBC Walnut, the future of the Chinese American church, and how he deals with the challenges of leading an immigrant church with many different languages and cultures.
This conversation was edited for clarity and length.
Steve Chang: You’ve decided that the future of FCBC Walnut is the English language. How did that happen and what does that look like?
Albert Ting: FCBC Walnut is really unique because this church was started by an ABC (American-born Chinese) pastor. Because the founding pastor was ABC, naturally, the English ministry became strong through the years.
When I came here, I was 56 [years old], and I knew I had a limited time to be the senior pastor. So, I planned to groom a successor, I knew that the next successor had to be an ABC pastor because of the makeup of the congregation. The immigration trend is telling us that immigrants are on the decline, especially from Asia, because Asia is getting economically stronger and stronger.
They can study here, they may spend some time here, but ultimately they will go back. So we feel that the immigration trends will get slower and slower. If this is true, then who is the future? Of course, it is the English-speaking [people], those who grew up here. Given all these factors, we are basically telling the staff and we’re telling the people, “the English ministry is the future, so let’s all work together and build toward this vision.”
Steve Chang: You said that your philosophy works here because you have a unique situation in that your church was started by an ABC. If it was an OBC (overseas-born Chinese) who founded the church and the Cantonese or Mandarin-speaking congregants gave a lot of money to build the buildings and sacrificed a lot, do you think it would be possible to go in this direction?
Albert Ting: I think it is still possible, but it will be an uphill battle. I would need to wrestle with a lot more cultural reservations and emotional pushback. For us, we are already very much English-oriented, so it’s a breeze for us to move forward. And as long as the English congregation continues to respect the Chinese and give them proper space, the Chinese speaking will be happy with an English anchored church because they see the whole family being served. They see that their next generation is being taken care of by the English congregation. And that’s the main thing. The reason Chinese families come here is to make sure the next generation is being well cared for spiritually.
Steve Chang: So let’s say other Chinese pastors and lay leaders are reading this, and they think, “FCBC Walnut is causing trouble for us. They’re putting ideas in people’s heads.”
Some of them might think: “We’ve seen too many times when we’ve tried to give the English congregation more autonomy or platform, but they just don’t honor us. They want to get rid of “Chinese” in the [church] name. They devalue us.” What would you say to people who are concerned that those types of things?
Albert Ting: I will say that first of all, the differences are mainly style: the style of worship, style of approaching ministry, and the style of connecting with people. For immigrants, your identity is very tied to your ethnicity, right? We are the Chinese church, there’s Chinatown, Koreatown, and certain communities where Japanese were/are more concentrated. We feel like we are minorities, and to be strong, we need to get together to preserve a culture and preserve a language. But for the American-born Chinese, they think differently. Unlike immigrants, they may be less sensitive to preserving their ethnic identity within a church community.
So I would try to convince the Chinese pastor and say it’s a different perspective. The ABCs are not being rebellious. They are not being defiant, and they are not being disrespectful. They just see things differently.
And as immigrants, especially Chinese, we want uniformity. There’s this notion of “If you have different ideas, it means, you are not happy with us,” and submission is very important as a sign of respect. But in America, diversity is to be celebrated, and independence too. You can speak your mind as an equal.
But in the Chinese culture, you can speak your mind, but if I’m older than you, you speak more respectfully [to me]. So it’s a matter of different perspectives. It’s a matter of different expressions. So if you’re willing to allow the English congregation to express their perspective and understand that the expression is actually their own way of showing respect, then even if it’s not what you are used to, you will receive that they are part of us.
Steve Chang: But for a lot of the younger Asian American leaders, it’s not only that they are expressing honor and respect in a different way. A lot of them have a difficult time respecting because the culture is different.
They think, “Why are you emphasizing the Chinese so much? We should be emphasizing just the gospel.” Or “Why are we not loving the neighbors right around us when we exclude them with our Chinese-ness? Why do we send people to missions halfway across the world, but not worry about the people here?” If they are not respecting the OBC leadership, then it’s not just a form of difference. Isn’t there a substantive difference?
Albert Ting: I think there are some differences that we can bridge and there will be some differences that we just have to live with it. For Chinese churches, going overseas to do missions shows a certain effort that is beyond just staying local. They honor labor; they honor sacrifice. So going overseas, going a far distance means more sacrifice. So that’s actually a show of your deeper commitment to global missions, even though the same groups are in your backyard, right?
I think with certain topics, it’s very difficult to reconcile because it’s part of the culture, and as Peter Drucker says, “Culture eats strategy for breakfast.” Because culture is so strong and so difficult to get away from that all your strategies and teachings are all gone before it gets to lunchtime.
Steve Chang: When you see a lot of the younger ABC pastors and leaders, what kind of qualities would you need to see or want to see for you to be able to say, yes, I think he’s going to be able to make it in the Chinese church?
Albert Ting: First of all, I always ask, do you hate the Chinese church? If they grew up here, they might have had experiences that were very, very negative, and they might have been wounded, or they might foster in their hearts a certain unhappiness with Chinese culture.
I would also make sure the next generation of ABCs engage the gospel and grow together [with the Chinese church]. But if there’s a sense of, I don’t like the Chinese style because of a negative past experience, the younger ABC will struggle, and it will show because they will tend to be more reactive.
Steve Chang: What is a tangible way that your church puts English first?
Albert Ting: We respect all the language groups, and most of the time, we highlight English. And in combined services, we try to minimize translation. So some translations are projected on PowerPoint. For example, when it comes to testimony-sharing, we translate the written testimony into Chinese on paper, so that whoever is talking can share in English all the way.
Also, for church business meetings, we used to have on-stage translation. But we saw that many Chinese who show up could understand English. So we were actually only translating for a handful of seniors who had no understanding of the English language. So in 2018, we decided to get rid of the translation on stage, conducting the entire meeting in English. We provided two tables with two translators, one in Cantonese, one in Mandarin, and announced that if you don’t understand English, please go to one table for Cantonese and another table for Mandarin.
Because we don’t have translations, we can move faster, which makes more people come to the meetings. So we got away with minimizing translation, and by God’s grace, there was no issue.
Steve Chang: Do you think in a historically Chinese church, you could have English as the dominant language? Even if they do understand it, isn’t that hard?
Albert Ting: Oh, yeah. For Chinese not to hear the Chinese language, it’s a big struggle for them because hearing their native tongue is a part of their identity. You can say, “Well, our identity is in Christ.” We all know that. But I’m also a Chinese Christian. I would prefer to hear the Chinese language being preached.
Steve Chang: Yes, they hear English out in the world all the time. So at church, they want to hear the mother tongue. But it’s something you are purposefully doing for the sake of allowing the English-speaking part of the church to be the future.
Albert Ting: Yes, that’s our sense of direction when we say that English is the anchor. We mean it. So it shows when we use less of the Chinese language in combined worship services. It shows when we make a special effort to conduct the service in English with Chinese translated on PowerPoint. It shows in the way we groom younger English deacons to come on board. It shows in my commitment that the next senior pastor I groom will be an ABC pastor.
Steve Chang: Let’s say you know a young ABC pastor who is getting invited to pastor at a Chinese church, and he loves this FCBC model. What if he asked you, “What kind of questions should I ask the senior pastor of that Chinese church, and what are some red flags?”
Albert Ting: I’ll ask [the senior pastor], “What is the future of the Chinese church? Do you think the future will include more immigrants, or will the church be more focused on those who grew up here?” I would want to see his conviction, and then I’ll ask if it’s possible to have a combined service with less translation or where the main language is English and the service is being translated from English to Chinese.
“Do you think it will work here? Or do you think people will be offended?” That would give me a strong feel for their culture and the way things are done in that church and how open they are and whether they have wrestled with some of the issues already.
Steve Chang: The senior pastor may not give the answers the ABC pastor wants to hear at the moment, but the fact that he’s wrestling with the issue is a good sign, correct?
Albert Ting: It’s a very good sign. I would also look at the church lay leaders because sometimes the senior pastor wants to go in a certain direction, but the deacon board or the elder board are against it. For the sake of unity, the senior pastor has to scale back and move slowly. And sometimes, the younger ABC pastors feel impatient. They feel restless, like, how long am I gonna wait for them to finally get it right? So they’d rather leave and go to other churches.
Steve Chang: But just to be clear, do you feel like there’s no one formula for Asian American churches?
Albert Ting: FCBC Walnut can’t be the model for all Chinese churches. People must consider all the unique factors that led us to where we are today, making it possible for us to unite in such a way that we respect each language congregation, providing platforms for each other to thrive. Only then, could we as a church, recognize the English as the anchor and build toward the next senior pastor being an ABC.
It’s because of our history and what we have gone through. But not every Chinese church has that. We have a unique makeup and unique history. So what can happen here, may not happen in other Chinese churches with three congregations.