SOLA Network x Rooted present: Gospel Centered Parenting & Asian American Faith

Danny Kwon: Welcome to Asian American parenting, a podcast from Rooted ministry and the SOLA Network, where the gospel meets Asian American faith culture and parenting. Each episode, we explore how to raise the next generation with a strong gospel foundation in Christ while navigating the unique challenges of our cultural identity. Thanks for joining us. Let’s dive in. Welcome. I’m your co host Danny Kwon from Rooted Ministry. I’m Rooted Senior Director of Youth Ministry content and cross cultural initiatives. And I want to introduce my co host from the SOLA Network editorial board, Monica Kim, a biblical counselor and psychologist. She focused her PhD work in parenting and attachment theory. And she is also my wife. We have raised three teenagers together. Would you like to say hello Monica. 

Monica Kim:  Hi everyone, it’s nice to be here.

Danny Kwon: Anything else about yourself that you’d like to say, I know you’re my wife, but also you’re Canadian, Canadian American, right?

Monica Kim: I’m excited to be spending some time talking about together Asian American parenting. There’s so much that goes on in the midst of Asian American parenting, meeting the gospel, faith and culture. So there’s a lot in there, and I’m excited to be talking about various issues that are connected to that

Danny Kwon: So we hope that those of you who are parents, pastors, the church, who are our listeners will really embrace our podcast as we consider gospel centered parenting in the Asian American context, really thinking about like this idea, it is really vast, like this question, what is Asian American gospel centered parenting, and it can relate to all these different avenues, like thinking about academics and the gospel future jobs that we think about for our kids, and how do we guide them in The Gospel? How do we nurture our children’s talents, but with the gospel perspective our anxiety as parents and Asian American influences on us and how the gospel applies in our lives, what it means that we’ve grown up in the first generation church or Asian American churches, and that impact on gospel centered parenting. So this question of gospel centered parenting is so vast, but I want to begin to define it as where the gospel meets Asian American faith culture and parenting to all be summed up in this idea of Asian American parenting and Asian American gospel centered parenting. And so with that kind of introduction, Monica, what is Asian American gospel centered parenting to you? And this intersection of the gospel and faith with Asian American culture, parenting and faith. 

Monica Kim: That’s such a big question, as you have mentioned.

Danny Kwon: And can I say I know you’re coming from a counseling perspective, but you’ve also done church ministry, and I was a youth and family pastor in an Asian American church for 29 years. Somehow, I survived as a youth pastor in one church for 29 years. So we also bring our unique professional lenses to this podcast, and so go ahead, as well as our personal lens too. We raised three teenagers who are now in their early 20s.

Monica Kim: So that question, going at that and going back to that question, what is Asian American gospel centered parenting? I imagine that you know, as we continue on in our series of the series of podcasts, that that’ll become much more nuanced, because there are so many facets to it. But I do think about how, let’s say, for Asian American Christians as parents, it is not just about, you know, being able to really as let’s say Ephesians six four talks about how parents ought to raise them up. We raise our children up in the discipline and the instruction of the Lord, while that is a real important part of parenting and and Asian American gospel centered parenting that there’s so much to unpack about our history and culture as Asian Americans, and also how we understand faith to bear in light of raising our children. And so one of the things I do think about in terms of Asian American gospel centered parenting is our need to really thoughtfully reflect on how we have been raised up ourselves, and the impact of our Asian American parents who have parented us, and what kind of Asian American culture, but also how it intersects with the gospel from our parents have been cast down to us, but also how it impacted us. I think that that is like one big area to think about and reflect on, because while the gospel calls us as parents to really raise our children up in the Lord and in the discipline and instruction of the Lord, it becomes so nuanced as to how it looks like and what it ends up being. And so just wanted that out there.

Danny Kwon: One example of that, I think is really funny, and I talk about this example a lot is the Asian American comedian, Ronnie Chen. And he talks about, you know, in Asian, Asian American culture, the exaltation of wanting your children to become a doctor, and he makes this joke that it’s helping people is so low on the totem pole of why we want our children to become doctors, or it’s not even, doesn’t even make the list of why, but It’s really for Asians, Asian Americans. It’s about money and prestige, that helping people is not even on the list, and that impacts maybe the way as Asian American parents, we were raised, and how that’s influenced our view. So the way my parents thought about it, the way I thought about it, how they parented me and how we parented our our children, you and I, Monica, but then also how we, you know, make the gospel really challenge that kind of view. And I just think it’s really funny because, you know, we had a kid who wanted to go to med school, and I was so excited where, you know, you were more balanced about it. But again, it was maybe in my heart, I’ll confess I was more about the prestige. But, you know, you know, but you know, never, when he, when he decided to do cancer research, I was like, angry, you know. And where is the gospel, you know, I’m a pastor, and I’m just wondering, you know, where do I find the gospel in my life and my idolatry and sin there?

Monica Kim: Yeah, and I think you’re mentioning an important point, you know, bringing up Ronnie Cheng, the comedian, in regard to Asian American culture, and how Asian American culture can impact or influence the way we think about gospel centric parenting, not that they don’t go together and but that we may misunderstand or misuse in some sense, the Gospel to even enhance those things that we think are good hopes for our children, parents, and while there is that real sense of and I don’t think this is like unique to the Asian American culture, so the desire for our children to be successful, the desire for our children to have A place in the world that they feel really good about that’s related to their, you know, position, but also the income that they will be able to get, you know, that’s not unique to the Asian American culture, but also, but however, I think there’s another facet that I think comes to you know, mind, which is how immigrants, our parents, most of our parents were first generation immigrants, and that how they came with the common story of not having much, because a lot of them came From a lot of various difficult cultural places or in history, in very different, you know, various different Asian American countries. And so a lot of our immigrant story involves trauma, refugee status, coming from war torn countries, not, yeah, a lot of poverty, not having much so a lot of threat and so with all of that kind of a history and culture, you’re talking about so many nuances, or so many aspects of culture, or Asian American kind of history and culture generationally, that have impacted their Parenting, and how all of that intersected with the gospel.

Danny Kwon: And you know, in that way, I want to make sure to for our listeners to know that in no way is this podcast supposed to shame them or guilt them or make them feel bad. You know, you and I are parents on this journey of trying to live out the Gospel as parents. And we also want to celebrate the good things about our Asian Americanness, that God has placed us in our cultural heritage. We also want to, you know, not tell you know parents that they’re all wrong. You know, being Ronnie Chen’s or, you know, like you know you’re being tiger moms, or you know, you know you’re not doing it right. But we’re really trying to discuss how Asian American parents can really navigate faith culture and a gospel foundation in their parenting.

Monica Kim: And so just going back to that question you had asked in the beginning, what is Asian American parenting, where it also meets the gospel and faith? Well, what? What is that all about? I think it would be hard to really answer it to in a succinct way, but again, really having to be thoughtful and reflecting on our culture, heritage histories, but also how the gospel really informs and impacts that kind of cultural view for the glory of God for The generations to come as we think about our children and what is going to be important to be able to parent how is how it’s going to be important to parent our children reflectively in the Gospel.

Danny Kwon: Because where is that balance, or where is the priority of our citizenship? Is in the kingdom of God, you know, as people of faith, but we’re also uniquely Asian American parents. And how do we balance or prioritize faith versus our Asian American identity and culture? What do you think about that?

Monica Kim: How to balance it? I think that’s a I think there’s always a challenge when it’s when we’re thinking about, how do you balance a, you know, the culture and the gospel. I think it’s more to me when I’m thinking about the question is, how do you reflect on the gospel, informing cultural and historical ways of parenting, not to erase it, but how it really will help us to reorient ourselves to what is most important and how to prioritize. And I think to be able to get to that again, going back to the need for us to be reflective on where we come from as a history of people. It’s kind of like exegeting our own culture and heritage and our history as we think about how the gospel impacts and applies. The other part is also, not only being able to reflect and unpack some of that history and culture, but also how we are to embrace with humility, the way in which not only our parents but also ourselves may have gotten side tracked by cultural calls and mandates that we feel so pressured by. And I’m not saying that it’s a simple when you understand it, then you’ll replace it with the gospel, but it is this journey into being ever so humble to recognize that we’re often going to get side tracked, will continue to need to journey and reorient and reflect upon the gospel, because if I think about my own parenting journey, it’s been a journey where I’ve had to really wonder to myself, am I placing a well behaved child and how they Look because I want them to present our family well above how my child is to love the Lord and to be able to love others. Well, I’ve had to really think about that a lot, over and over again throughout Am I using the gospel to help myself feel better about my children, or am I using the gospel to really love my children so that they will be trained in the instruction and discipline of the Lord to know them more, how it pans out to their behavior, or how it pans out to how they will use their careers, etc, etc. And so I know that’s a bit of a long way of answering your question about balance, but I do think it’s a journey, and how that journey, in that journey, we’re always reorienting ourselves to the gospel because of the need for reflection and humility and repentance, mostly. Yeah, can I ask you?

Danny Kwon: You know, I’m going to also answer for myself from being a Youth and Family pastor in an Asian American church for, you know, 29 years, also working at rooted and working with a lot of Asian Americans, and you being a family and marriage counselor, having PhD studying parenting and family and things like that. And you know, you also counsel Asian Americans. And in the church you served alongside with me, you know, in a two for one setting, in an Asian American church, sorry, you served faithfully with me, but didn’t get paid. But we love our Church. We love our church, but, but is there some general or a few more predominant issues you might say you see in Asian American parenting and raising kids, you know, again, we want to celebrate and not make people feel guilty. And you know, you know, browbeat them with the gospel and guilt them. But are there some issues that you see Asian American parents, one or two that are generally more prevalent in the lives of Asian American parents. And you know, we’ve spoken in a lot of churches, you know, you counsel a lot of families, generally, but also Asian American families.

Monica Kim: In my experience and understanding I would, I would say that too, that kind of stands out, is an is the idea of the pressure to achieve and also proper. Maybe you might call it, you know, saving face, but you know, having a being proper, you know a certain having to be a certain way or behave a certain way. I think those two are pretty heavily emphasized. I think in my experience of Asian Americans or immigrant parents?

Danny Kwon: Do you think that’s like, let’s say you and I, our parents immigrated here, and we’re second gen parents, and our kids were born here and they’re third gen Do you think that that pressure to succeed is something we’ve inherited and we pass that on to our raising of our kids as Asian Americans, and we put that pressure on our children. 

Monica Kim: I think it could be for a multiple I think multiple reasons. I think a lot of our Asian, you know, immigrant parents came from a lot of traumatic histories, and whether it was war torn countries or escaping, you know, revolutions or various different kinds of cultural or, you know, country of origin issues that there is also, given all of that, there’s also this kind of experience of scarcity and need to survive from all of that. And so I do think that that can produce a sense of a pressure to achieve, the sense that if we don’t achieve or succeed in some form, then we won’t survive. And given that kind of a history or background, and then I suppose, in addition to the idea of, you know, I don’t want to say that you know, every Asian American culture you know, is influenced by Confucian you know, culture, but Confucianism also is. It does place such heavy emphasis on the importance of being very devoted to the family and hierarchy. And you know the idea of education, and you know how important all of those values are. And so if you put all of that you know together, I do think that sometimes, then if you add in this idea of needing to maintain that cultural kind of idea of education and respect value for the family and then survival, in addition to do it all for the glory of God, if you kind of put it all together, it’s almost like these levels of now we have to do it all for the glory of God. Get so so messed up sometimes or messy or very entangled in ways that then adds on to such pressure to achieve. And in some families, the children may not have experienced that direct kind of talk of pressure to achieve, but you may see it in the behaviors of the parents, where they are just maybe at work all the time, and then they don’t have enough time for spending with their children growing up, and the children internalize this feeling of, wow, my parents are working so hard for me, I feel really guilty, or feel the need to want to really help my parents and care for them well, because in the family, there is this idea of, again, respect for authority and being able to be and also emphasizing the importance of family and devotion to family, such that you’ll still experience the sense of this pressure to achieve and then add on to it. Okay, now we need you to be a good Christian. On top of that, that can get really intense. 

Danny Kwon: Yeah, very interesting. That’s very interesting. I think it’s going to be a good topic that we can explore in our next episode. But before we end and go into that in the next episode, just wanted to get the listeners to get to know you and I a little bit better. We’ll end each episode with a little bit of a lighter question. So my question to you, just for the listeners, is, what is your most cherished memory as a teenager? 

Monica Kim: I have to you know, there are a lot of cherished memories, and I’m thinking that’s a hard one in terms of what is my most treasured memory as a teenager. I think one I remember is, you know, at school for English class, I really did love English class. And, you know, all the various different literature books that we were reading. And there was an assignment on being able to either you can write about it or present it, or, you know, you can use any kind of form to do this project. And it was a project about your own history. And I used the time to interview my grandmother, who, you know, shared with me about how, you know, being Korean. At the time that she lived, Korea was occupied by, you know, Japanese and and so she had to learn a lot of Japanese, you know, the Japanese language. And she tried to kind of tell me about that. And so I just Bucha, just kidding, but I did interview her on her experiences. And what I did do was then share her history through like a spoken soliloquy about reflection on her life. And I was just really surprised that my teacher and also my classmates really, really enjoyed that. So I did get some really good encouragement about what was shared. 

Danny Kwon: Well, my most cherished memory is my dad. My mom did the daily cooking, but my dad really loved, like, gourmet cooking, and he was a kind of an amateur chef. Was great at making lot of dishes. He trained to be a sushi chef. And I remember, when he trained to be a sushi chef, he made all these sushi dishes, just not only just regular sushi, but just all these different Japanese dishes. And we really our family, you know, in a lot of Asian families, I think eating together was kind of our love language. So my most cherished memories as a teenager was eating together good food that my dad made. And I think that’s something that you and I, we passed along to our kids, and so that’s a great cherished memory for me. Well, thank you for listening to the first episode of Asian American parenting. We really ask you to subscribe to the podcast Asian American parenting, and we look forward to our next episode where we continue to think about what is Asian American gospel centered parenting, and until that time, may we embrace the hope, enjoy the gospel and believe that it’s true, powerful and transformative in our parenting and in our personal lives. Thank you. See you later. We hope that you enjoyed this podcast for more resources, visit the show notes. See you next time.