SOLA’s New President: An Interview with Steve Chang

Will Chang:  Hello. Welcome, everyone, to one of Sola Network’s interviews. I am Will Chang, one of the recently appointed Board of Trustees, and I’m joined here today with Pastor Steve Chiang, who was the founding pastor and more recently retired senior pastor of Living Hope and currently has transitioned into being Sola’s new president.

So I wanted to take this time to kind of catch up with Pastor Steve, see how the Lord’s working in his life, how the Lord’s working in the transitions of these two ministries. And to really take some time to pray for him and to see what the Lord is doing in the wider kingdom So pastor Steve, thanks for taking time. Good to see you and glad that you’re here to talk with us.

Steve Chang: Thank you for having me and being together. Um, just to Make a correction. I’m not retired I make that clear. I’m working just as hard and keeping busy Engaged and not only so love that other ministries and helping other churches as well 

Will Chang: I think all of us who know you steve probably know that you never really stopped working and never really retired So I think we just all receive the benefit of that But why don’t we get into this and I think one of the questions that are on people’s minds and at least for me is that being one of the senior Pastors in the SoCal area, if not all of California, you have a wealth of experience and 30 years in pastoral ministry.

What have you learned about yourself? What has God taught you about you as you follow Jesus, about pastoral ministry, um, any insights or lessons that really stuck out? Uh, stuck out when you were reflecting upon your time at living home?  

Steve Chang: You know, I don’t want to be presumptuous and to, to say that I’ve figured a lot of things out and I don’t know if I’ve figured anything out. But one of the things that that stood out for me is this, that when I first interned to ministry, some 35, you know, some years ago or even longer.  In a way, I thought  I was prepared,  whether because I went to a good seminary, I was Bible literate, I did my internship, I spoke English, and back then that was a big deal.

And it didn’t take me that long to realize that, uh, I, I’m, not all that. I had a small congregation and it stayed small for a while. 

I remember it was at a, an event or a  context in which I was having a conversation with another pastor and we were talking about an issue, and I gave, he gave his thoughts and I gave a counter. 

And he asked me point blank at that moment. How big is your church?  And, um, I told him  and he just kind of shut me out from that moment.  You don’t have anything to offer to, to say about the subject. Um, and to be honest, I, I had to wrestle with this idea.  What if I spend 34 years as a small church pastor? Am I okay with that?  But I had to be okay with that. Because that’s who I was. Along the way, though, I started looking at other pastors, other churches and try to figure out what is it about some situations in which the church grows and while others, it doesn’t grow,  we might say, well, it’s giftedness or it’s its character. 

Um, you know, it is the right context or whatever, but Will, I think you and I know.  We’ve seen plenty of  leaders  who are gifted, who pray, who are faithful, whose churches just don’t grow,  and we’re not sure why. And we’ve seen other situations with leaders with really questionable character. But somehow the church grows, and so I think my conclusion with all of that is sometimes God grows a church  in spite of the lack of giftedness or in spite of even character and sometimes God blesses a congregation and by keeping them small. And it’s all of God’s grace.  

You know the story of Noah and Jonah.  Jonah,  uh, was the person who created a revival in Nineveh.  And if he were alive today, he’d be invited to conferences and read books, you know. Um, saving Nineveh, you know.  And Jonah, on the other hand,  was a small church pastor with eight people, him and his wife, his three daughters and three sons in law. But if you look at Hebrews chapter 11, the walk of faith, It is, uh, Noah that God mentions. And so, um, what is it that we can learn from all of that? And one of the things I learned is just that God sometimes blesses and grows and other times not. And even growth doesn’t mean it has God’s blessings on it. We just need to be good and faithful to what God has given to us. 

Will Chang: I think that’s excellent and insightful. I do have a follow up question about that. And it’s also remarkable because just looking at the length of your ministry, you were able to finish well and at the same church. And I think that’s becoming increasingly more, less frequent. But as Living Hope or your ministry visibly began to grow, Whether your budget, the average Sunday attendance, number of speaking engagements that you’re invited to. And in light of what you just shared, did you struggle with that as your church was no longer a small church, but it continued to grow? Did you, did you wrestle with that, that visible fruitfulness and success so that it didn’t necessarily Go to your head and that you didn’t necessarily look down at other pastors who may have churches that are not as big or as visibly fruitful as your church was?

Steve Chang: You know, and, um, I could be completely off about this because how I view myself may be different from how others view me. But because I was a small church pastor for a long time.  And. I kind of knew  how it felt. And so  I was determined not to be, you know, that guy. Uh, and I also knew that it wasn’t, if God were to bless the church, it wasn’t because of my giftedness or my faithfulness or You know, our strategic planning or anything like that.

God sometimes just anoints His hand on a situation and other times not. And even growth is not necessarily a sign of God’s blessing too. And so  I, I don’t think it got to my head per se, although  the thing that I did have to do was change how I led from being a relational leader to an organizational leader. Um, so that’s one thing that I had to do. Yeah. 

Will Chang: Yeah. That’s, that’s excellent. And then that does make sense because everyone turns to you to figure out and to ask questions about organizational leadership. Um, let’s continue along and there’s another sort of transitory. or not transitory, but another question to kind of transition the topic.

And, like you’re saying, you are fully in ministry now. It’s just transitioned from local church ministry to, in some sense, a wider kingdom, uh, ministry. And that involves consulting with various churches, and that seems to increase in, churches and organizations desires to get your input and also related to SOLA. So we can tackle those one at a time, but, um, however you want to speak into that, what are your current, um, ministry involvement, whether consulting or SOLA, or you can start with consulting, like what are. What are you being asked to do? What has it been like? Uh, do you enjoy doing that, uh, consulting for churches for different projects?

And what that, what has that been like for you?  

Steve Chang: I don’t think I went into consulting intentionally. I, uh,  stepped down from my old church and Um, about four and a half, five months ago, and it was supposed to be a four months worth of a time of sabbatical before I fully engaged in it SOLA. But during that time, I just got asked incidentally by different situations to come alongside of them.  And not because I am particularly smart or I’m an excellent consultant, I think just because I was available. And maybe they thought, well, because of  my years of ministry. Um, but one of the things that I have discovered is this, that in a lot of situations, especially immigrant churches and Asian American churches, when they need help or they need an outside voice,  uh, the modern consulting Christian world is very white and very expensive, very inaccessible, uh, and not a very good fit per se. 

And I think, I represent something in which they are hoping could be of help. And so I was asked to do several things and I’m, I’m learning on the way.  And as I am learning, I’m, I’m trying to figure out how can we serve churches?  And, developing assessments, um, burnout assessments, um, walking alongside of churches in succession and in, in church health and different things, but  I, I enjoy it. But I was talking to some mutual friends of ours and they told me, like, and my family as well, that I can do that as a boutique on the side. That cannot become my main thing. 

Will Chang: And then if it’s possible, sometimes examples could be challenging, but I absolutely agree. Every church has its own culture, you know, its own sort of ethos and When you see a difference between more of a Western approach to consulting churches versus more of an Asian Eastern culture Do you have an example about how that works out? What does that look like? Is there an example that kind of highlights that difference that in your past four or five months of consulting that you’ve come across?  

Steve Chang: Yeah, I, I, I think one of the easiest examples are the English congregation attached to a Korean congregation. And oftentimes, uh, an English congregation, they could say that they have particularized or independent financially, et cetera, et cetera. And someone who’s not familiar with the situation may just take their word at face value. But, Will, you and I know  that’s not always the case. And it’s not what’s legal, it’s not what’s written, but it’s oftentimes unwritten, relational, culture type of thing. And so, there are times when the English congregation would ask, Hey, can you advise us on this?

Relating to the, related to the Korean congregation, I would say, well, the Korean congregation hasn’t invited me to that. But if I start giving input to you about that and they find out, that may not sit well with them. If they want to invite me. Right. Together. Right. Um, but if you invite me to speak into that and just knowing who I am, they may take it the wrong way and it would be disrespectful to them too.

And so, um, and just knowing how first generation Korean pastors are, a lot of them are my friends, right? I think it’s just a matter of respect. Yeah. So that’s just a, an easy example. 

Will Chang: That’s actually a, yeah, that’s a very great example. It is very relational, very high context that unless you’ve been in it or come from it, it’s hard to kind of speak into, um, turning sort of gears a little bit and focusing on SOLA.

So Harold Kim, our former president of SOLA has transitioned out with the calling that he’s pursuing. And. The most notable and logical and smoothest fit was always for all of us on the council that you would be the next president to kind of take the helm and as you always have been and take it to the next step. Um, a couple of questions about that. What are you most excited about this new role for yourself as president? 

Steve Chang: Um, I mixed, you know, well, I think even during the last five months I’ve been thinking a lot. Oh yeah. And I think I whiteboard, I write, you know,  um, I talk to different people and I keep evolving. 

I think we’ve always talked about reaching the emerging generation of Asian Americans with gospel faith, right? That’s been the same.  I think what’s evolved in the last five months or so is this, that SOLA is not the entity that should do the work. The work is already being done  by local churches and their leaders across North America.  What  someone needs to do, though, is to highlight that work.  To let others know that these work are being done.  I, uh, was having  Um, and there are hundreds of churches across North America who are doing great work. I was, I was having a conversation the other day with a leader, uh,  and they started a discipleship program on Friday nights, and hundreds are coming out.

Oh, wow.  But you and I don’t hear about them.  I was talking to a mutual friend of ours and an elder from that church.  It’s a, they celebrated their 50th anniversary,  uh, it’s a Chinese heritage church, it’s historic.  But not only are they celebrating 50 years of being a Chinese heritage church, but they, a couple years ago, planted out a multi ethnic church.

And so they are doing both, Chinese immigrant ministry as well as multi ethnic ministry.  Uh, people aren’t tweeting about that and they’re not trying to be internet famous because, you know, we know the pastor and the such. And so great things are happening across North America. But because of the nature of Asian Americans and what they view as what’s spiritual, what’s holy, what’s humble,  they’re not as broadcasted as much and we don’t always learn from them.

So what I’m excited about SOLA is we get to do some of that.  We get to platform, highlight, and put our focus on the community. The great things that God is doing through local churches and their leaders. So I’m excited about that. 

Will Chang: Yeah, that is exciting. And it’s great to be able to highlight how the Lord’s working in pockets that we would never have heard of unless something like SOLA existed to be able to learn from and communicate that out.

When you as the current president, because I know you’re very much a strategist, a visionary, and the timeline is not as important, but when you think about SOLAand its next phase, or another way to think about it is within five years, where would you pray that the Lord will bring Sola? What would it look like? What kind of ministry impact, what kind of ministries would it have?  What vision do you have Praying to the Lord that SOLA could be within a certain amount of five to ten years or so. 

Steve Chang: I think Um, I don’t know. Well,  you might have heard me talk about I’m 62 Mm hmm. I think I can give another good eight years to this  Well, what I’d like to see happen within the next eight years, if we want to  impact the culture of the Asian American community, Christian, and we want to try to normalize gospel faith for them, I think one of the best things and the most strategic things and most reachable things that we can do  is, um, to partner with churches that are already doing that work.

And so one of my hope, and this has to get approved by the, the trustees as well as the council  is to identify  And, and recruit and platform 70 churches that hold to the inerrancy of scripture,  that teach gospel faith. Um, and they already, you know, are local church driven, they’re committed to the local church. And they are able to amplify the Asian American voice, per se. 

It doesn’t have to be an Asian American church. And if we can  rally at least 70 churches for that, because I believe that it cannot be one person, one church. One denomination or one tribe, it has to be from the elders of our generation. 

And so that’s one of the things that I’m hoping to see happen. So within the next couple of years, with the approval of everyone, for us to be able to rally 70 churches who can say, Hey,  we are willing to serve other churches sacrificially.  Um,  and, and, yeah, and, and,  and I think that could be a strategic way to do that.

Will Chang: Yeah. I think that 70 church vision, yeah, it’s a compelling one, and I think it could really bring about, bring about a remarkable, uh, level of fruit for, for the kingdom. And so, um, speaking on a term, but I’m sure you have at least my vote as a council or board of trustees. Yeah. But yeah, that’s a beautiful vision. It’s exciting to see what the Lord could do through that. 

Steve Chang: Yeah. And you know, like,  like the case of that Chinese heritage, which I just talked about,  um,  like that’s a beautiful picture of what they’ve done.  Um, I, I think more people just need to know about it to get an idea. Oh, that’s an option. That’s a great possibility.  And oftentimes when you see. Success, examples of success, it, it, um, people start to mimic it, at least saying, well, that’s, that’s a potential way for us too. So, yeah. 

Will Chang: Yeah, absolutely. Um, SOLA has impacted so many churches and leaders and pastors. Um, how has SOLA, and I know you’re the leader of SOLA, but how has SOLA in his community and ministry ministered to you personally? What have you, what have you benefited from? Uh, being part of this movement. 

Yeah. I, um,  I, I, you know, I’m not the leader. I’m just one of  the leaders.  Um, but to be honest with you, I think that the way that I’ve benefited the most assist and then, well, you’ve, you’ve heard  how men sometimes are different from women.

Yeah. Uh, women like to sit across from each other and then like to sit side by side.  You know, with a task or a goal, a mountain to conquer type of a thing. I think what’s been beautiful for me personally is collaborating with other really sharp, humble, godly leaders  to see the need, the mission and say, Hey, let’s conquer that together. 

It doesn’t matter if it has my name or my tribe or my church’s brand on it, that the work and the mission is compelling. Let’s do that together. And along the way, I found friends and camaraderie,  um, and will, you know, like Uh, you and I, we run a text thread together and, and, um, and our friends are texting each other on all sorts of, you know, interesting things. And um, I feel honored,  uh, to be friends with all of these people. Um, and as we continue to increase the work, I have other groups of friends that I’m, I’m developing. I think that’s been my biggest. Um, benefit, um, where I’ve gained from the most, um, I’m just, you know, well, I,  I just don’t have a lot of friends. So I,  I invest in SOLA so I can have friends.  

Will Chang: That’s absolutely not true. But to your point, yeah, I think it’s when I talked to other council members, certainly the connections, the sharpening, the fellowship and really finding a safe space for. Pastors who are either Presbyterian, or non denominational, or Baptist, but there’s something unique to just being a pastor that we have a safe space to come together and pray, and to share, and even complain, and to challenge one another about what the Lord has called us to do. So I think I definitely affirm and resonate with what you’re saying there.  A couple more questions, but we can end on this, which is a more formal one. Do you have any, at this point, given the climate of Christianity in America, where there’s been an unprecedented number of pastors leaving the ministry, and I recently was told that the number of students entering the seminary overall is significantly lower, and, not sure if that is true, but that’s what somebody who’s in that space told me, what are, what would be some encouraging words that you would have for, um, either someone considering going into ministry, attending seminary, pursuing the call, or someone who just recently graduated seminary and is about to embark upon their first full time ministry call? What some words of encouragement would you give to that generation?

Steve Chang: Um, I was having a conversation with a pastor  the other day and he said that a lot of the people whom he went to seminary with were no longer in ministry.  Many of them have dropped out, burnt out, scandaled out, etc. And I asked him, what do you think could have made a difference? And he said, honestly, if they were not so alone,  if they had a group of people that they could have walked with,  I think whether you are going, entering into seminary  as you enter, and that’s, that’s a different kind of a question, but As you come out,  I wish more people, uh,  would, would invest in friendships or cohorts or groups. 

I think about, like, 1 Kings, I think chapter 11, the story of Elijah. Great spiritual victory against the worshipers of Baal. And then we find him. Hiding in an unnamed desert wilderness and the Lord, you know, and the earthquake, the fire and the strong wind and the Lord was not in any of those, but it is the whisper of God that he listens to. 

And Elijah, this great prophet of God gifted. Called. Complaints, and he’s depressed, having suicidal thoughts. He, he would need biblical counseling, right? He has a mental health issue. 

And one of the things that Elijah, uh, complaints about this, I’m the only prophet left. He, he, he is alone. Or at least he felt alone. And the Lord had to remind them, no, there’s 7, 000 others who have not bowed their knees to Baal. And there’s a protégé, Elijah, waiting for you.  

One of the things that I wish I could say to Christian leaders is this.  If  and and well, you know that you you’ve been a lead pastor and so and so as I it’s a lonely job. There are times when we struggle with certain things at church that we cannot share with them But we should not at least share openly with people in the church  but  We’re so consumed there,  and so we just kind of internalize it with us and our, you know, our family or something like that.  But it is when we are isolated and siloed that we are more prone to burnout. 

And we’re more prone to doing something really stupid.  And I, it is my hope that more people would invest in,  in relationships, regular relationships with peers who are doing similar things. So if you’re a lead pastor. Gather with other lead pastors. If you’re a youth pastor, gather with other youth pastors.

Because they’ll understand you professionally and personally.  Um, and so if there was something that I would, uh, like, uh, wish for a lot of these pastors, it’s that, that’s what they would do. And it requires a little bit of work, it requires some proactiveness, but it requires also humility. Um, and a willingness to be patient with others. I hope all pastors do that. 

Will Chang: Yeah, that’s good. I think, yeah, you’ve nailed something on the head. I think pastors, you could be a lead pastor for a church of 500 or 5, 000 and you’re always around people, but you  Probably feel as lonely and as alone than ever because of the experience of leading a church. And to find a safe space with people who go through that similar experience can be a difference in making it and breaking it. And so I think that’s great, which is, I know you sort of alluded to it, why you have those cohorts that you’re putting together. And that I think has been so fruitful and people are still, it’s growing and pastors still want to join.

And they’ve been, some of the cohorts have been together for years. And so that’s just. A testament to the fact that we do need that and pastors need that and they crave it and they want to hold on to it, that’s awesome. 

Steve Chang: But I I think one of the things that i’ve noticed even among the cohorts that i’m involved with  Um for those who have humility of heart Who who are teachable. They’ll get involved in the cohort and it doesn’t matter whether other Guys and other people and other leaders in the court have bigger or smaller churches. I have something I can learn from each one of you. And if they bring that posture in, the chemistry just becomes great. Yeah, that’s great. 

Will Chang: Um, well, coming down on our close of time, but I have a handful of questions I’m going to ask you. It’s more sort of get to know Pastor Steve. Some are lighthearted, some are a little bit deeper. But we’ll start off with the easier ones. What is your favorite color? 

Steve Chang: Oh, I guess light blue. Light blue? Like a sky blue, or turquoise, or just It used to be light blue, but I guess it’s more sky blue now. Okay. I don’t know.

Will Chang: Uh, do you have a favorite food?  

Steve Chang: Favorite food. Um,  Boy, it used to be kimchi jjigae. I don’t know what it is now. I just eat whatever my wife makes. 

Will Chang: So your favorite food is whatever your wife makes. That’s actually a good answer. Yes, yes. I probably should ask this if you actually go on vacation because I know you have such a strong work ethic. But when you go on vacation, would you choose the beach or would you choose the museum?  

Steve Chang: Oh, you know what?  Um, when my family go on vacation, we go to the beach. 

Will Chang: Okay. Um,  Is that your choice? Do you like the beach? 

Steve Chang: Well, um,  I don’t know what we would do at a museum. And with grandkids now. 

Will Chang: Oh, that’s true. That’s a different kind of vacation. Okay, that makes sense.  Maybe a little bit of a deeper level.  It’s only been about four and a half, five months. What do you miss, if at all, being a lead pastor of a church?  

Steve Chang: Oh, that’s a good question. I asked you that question. Um,  there are certain things that I don’t miss as much as I thought I would miss. Um, what I do miss is, um, not being able to, Strategize and plan long term for the church. Yeah.  Um, you know, for some things, and well, you know, you were at a church, and  sometimes our job is to look down the horizon and say, if we want to arrive there, we need to make this adjustment here, so three, five years down the line, I don’t get to do that. And so if you’re like, Oh, there’s a missed opportunity there.  

Will Chang: Um,  but on that point is that sort of itch isn’t necessarily fulfilled with sort of looking down the corridor of SOLAfor eight years. It’s just, it’s a different kind of, no, no. I do get the scratch that it’s through SOLA now. But that’s what you miss at the church. 

Steve Chang: Yeah. Yeah. And, um, when I’m consulting churches though, I get to help them. That’s true. Right. Absolutely. Yeah. Um, I, I miss preaching series to the same group of people. Um, but I do get enough invitations to preach just, you know, at other, uh, venues or  congregations. So that’s good. I miss, I kind of miss not having, um, not having a staff that I can just tell them what to do.  So like, you know, like this. Yeah. Like our filming. We had me and Mike now. So you guys don’t listen to me.  But, um, but like even our filming session today, if, um, if I was still at living hope, I would just tell my staff, we’re going to do this. Um, you know, I tell my tech director, hey, can you Do this for us and we’ll be here and yeah, you can charge us. Um, you know your hours, etc Yeah, uh, but good thing we have Elliot now. Yeah, that’s right He doesn’t know what he got himself into. 

Will Chang: I mean to your point even my new role in geneva. It’s it’s very similar. I have to do Uh lead small conferences and colloquiums talking about investments, but without a staff. It’s a very different ball game and trying to get this set up  So I miss that as well. Yeah. Oh kathy. Can you 

help me? Yeah, that’s right Yeah, um, I guess my last question is maybe a little bit difficult, so you could take some time to think about it if you don’t know.

Who, name one person who has been, if not the most, one person who has been the most influential in your life. Aside from maybe your wife or Jesus, obviously.  Whether in leadership, preaching, personal devotionals, who’s been your most influential person? 

Steve Chang: Um, Oh, that’s a, that’s an interesting question. Outside of Jesus,  um, the Holy Spirit. Tim Keller, the fourth person of the Trinity,  um, gosh, you know, I, I think there are some  standard answers  that, um,  like Pastor Timothy Song, who was the senior pastor of the Korean church, uh, that we came out of,  um,  Uh, Corey Shida, who was kind of a mentor to me. Sure.  Um, there are, um, people influenced me at seminary. Uh, friends who’ve influenced me. Um,  let me just pick someone really obscure. Um, so that if someone no one knows. Yeah. Uh, and.  While we were beginning at Living Hope, um, there was a small church,  uh, right near the school that we rented.  And it was pastored by, uh, Pastor Sam, Sam Fuqua. And it was a tiny little church.  This older pastor, a white pastor. Uh, as gracious and kind as could be.  He went door to door, you know, kind of a pastor. Um, the church was just tiny. 

If someone were to ask me, would God say to Pastor Sam, well done, good and faithful servant, Absolutely think so.  Was he a skilled, gifted individual? I don’t know about that. Was he strategic? Networked? I don’t know about that. But he, I thought, was good and faithful.  And I think he is like the  Uh, the Noah,  he’s like a lot of the immigrant pastors who toil. Uh, a lot of the unnamed, uh, mothers who pray for their kids.  People who  aren’t writing bestsellers or tweeting themselves,  I think pastor Sam helped me to see certain side of ministry.  Back then, you know,  we didn’t have celebrity, at least in terms of internet. We didn’t have a lot of video venue campuses. 

But I just saw him as an example to learn from at least that part of ministry.  

Will Chang: Yeah, that’s a beautiful answer and absolutely true and correct. I mean, they say the name that’s really not known on earth will be the name that rings in heaven into eternity. I think it’s a wonderful way to think about who has influenced you the most. And on that note, Steve, thank you for your time. Um, for our time here to be able to discuss this. We’re always thankful for you and your leadership across many churches and many leaders. We’re thankful for Sola Network and excited for you as well. The president as we move forward together to see how we could really impact the kingdom in a unique way And so we’ll continue to pray for you and pray for this ministry And now we know where to go if we if the church needs consulting or if the pastor is lonely and needs a cohort So Steve Chang is the person to go to so we’re thankful for that and and well, thank you. 

Steve Chang: You are someone that I respected and  I just feel like we see eye to eye on so many different things. And that’s why I would, you know, contact you and we work so well together. Um, and whether it be consulting or, or just partnering with churches. I’ve already talked to you. You’re going to be there with me.  

Will Chang: It’s exciting. So I’m thankful for the opportunity. So thanks, Pastor Steve, and I look forward to the next one.