Merging two churches is difficult. Merging two churches with two different cultural, ethnic, and generational backgrounds seems impossible. But is it still possible? SOLA Network presents interviews with pastors Paul Kim and Michael Lee to help the church understand the dynamics that worked in these two mergers—that worked.
Today, we will be sharing about the journey of Pastor Paul Kim, who is the senior pastor at Redeemer Presbyterian Church (PCA) in San Diego, CA. He was interviewed by Steve Chang, who serves as Council Chairman of SOLA Network.
Harbor Presbyterian Church-North County (PCA) was a multiethnic congregation (around 60% Pan Asian, 40% white) that was relatively new (planted in 2001) and had no permanent location. Paul Kim was the founding lead pastor. North Coast Presbyterian Church (PCA) was a majority-culture church (predominantly white) with a property in Encinitas, California. In 2013, the two churches merged and became Redeemer Presbyterian Church (PCA) with Paul Kim as the senior pastor. Redeemer has flourished since.
The following are excerpts of our conversation that we believe will be helpful to the Church.
Paul Kim: Part of my wiring and my story growing up was not understanding Korean very well and wrestling with the question, “Where do I fit?”. I struggled to fit within the first-generation Korean church, and a lot of it was language. I also struggled to fit within the second-generation Korean-American environment because my upbringing lacked that broader sense of community as a child and teen.
In 2001, our family moved to San Diego where I joined the Harbor Presbyterian Church Planting movement that had a model of one church, multiple congregations, and multiple sites. Prior to that, I was involved in all Korean-American churches. Doug Swagerty, who functioned as an executive pastor at Harbor when I first joined, left Harbor to be the interim pastor at North Coast Presbyterian Church (the church that we eventually merged with), and he eventually was called to be the senior pastor.
NCPC had gone through a lot of challenges and transitions. Doug was there to help heal the church and he was a loving, faithful leader and pastor to the church. When I went on sabbatical in 2011, after 10 years of church planting in San Diego, we were looking ahead to the next 10 years of ministry. And I remember praying, “Lord, if you’re calling us to rent a space whether at a hotel or school for the ongoing season, great. However, if we are able to have a permanent space and be a more deeply rooted presence into our city, I would really love that.” Church planting kind of gets old after a while with the setup and breakdown!
We were not that far from North Coast Presbyterian Church in Encinitas, which was less than a 10-minute drive on the freeway from where we were currently meeting. Knowing that Doug was there, I remember praying about it and having a meeting with Doug, saying, “In a day and age when churches often split because of differences and arguments, wouldn’t it be great if two churches came together for the sake of unity and mission for the gospel? You and I have worked together for 10 years, so there is a relationship and we know each other well. In addition, both of our churches are in the same denomination. What if God were to bring us together as one church?” And by the grace of God, almost 2 years since that first conversation, that’s what happened.
Steve Chang: Most churches can’t pull off what you did – to merge a predominantly younger ethnically mixed church with a majority-culture white church.
Paul Kim: On my end, I never wanted to approach this in terms of power dynamics, of acquiring and getting. Rather, there was a genuine posture of curiosity and potential, asking, “Is the Lord in this?” Not only that, there was a focus on building trust and credibility with key leaders and congregation members on both sides. I cannot emphasize enough how important this was in God bringing two churches together.
For a merge to happen, people have to see that it’s a win-win on both sides. Both parties have to envision something that is unique or special that is really coming together. It wasn’t like we (Harbor) were just going to take over with our DNA and ministries. Instead, it was helping everyone grasp how God might be putting a wonderful mosaic of different people together in Jesus and making something new!
And I think that leadership—in terms of your character, experience, and being able to work with the different groups and bring them together into alignment—is a key central part to how our story came together.
I’ve shared with you a book called Better Together that was very helpful. There were three questions in the book: “Is it possible? Is it feasible? Is it desirable?” “Is it possible” means is there vision alignment with the opportunity? “Is it feasible” is going through all the nitty gritty details of what this would look like. And then, “Is it desirable” comes at the end where the congregation in unity comes together and affirms moving forward together.
Regarding those 3 questions, the most challenging one for us was the second one. It is said that the “devil is in the details”, and that is not just a proverbial saying, but this is where it can get hard and messy! What will services look like as a merged church? What will the music style be like? What if there are duplicate staff positions? What about the décor and feel of the church space? Knowing that there is massive change, it is a reality that with the excitement, there’s a grieving process too.
On my end, there were certain things I felt were non-negotiables and other things where I could say, “I’m okay with something different and not having it the way I would prefer it be.” The reality of a merge is that there will be several phases to go through in terms of greater alignment and feeling like you are “one church.” With a merge, phase 1 is definitely building trust and credibility…consider the imagery of planting. This is the stage of starting something new, of planting. You are planting seeds, and it is full of possibilities and potential, but even in this stage, there is the hard work of digging the ground to plant and watering it. Phase 2 is when things start to grow, and with the sprouting buds also come weeds. This is a season of careful pruning for the sake of deeper growth. Then phase 3 is when you get to “harvest”. Harvest doesn’t happen all of a sudden when it comes to a church merge, especially with establishing unity and healthy gospel culture!
Having stages and phases in mind was helpful to have as we merged. Otherwise, if you just try to accelerate and hit everything in one shot, that’s just not going to happen. When it came to the merge, I had the mindset of, “There’s going to be some give and take here. In this one area, it might not be the particular way that I would do it, but I’m okay with that, our leadership can be okay with that, and then we can move forward.” So that’s where the feasibility of things really came in. And it was not compromising, but it was coming together to say, “I think the Lord’s in this. And if the Lord’s in this, let’s continue to pursue this with prayer and conversations to see what he does.” And we were able to move it forward.
Steve Chang: I’ve seen other situations where a declining church is approached by these situations, whether it be a white majority culture church or a Korean-speaking church, and it feels like to them a hostile takeover.
It sounds like, from what you’re saying, that your former executive pastor established his credibility over there. And then, you guys started “dating” by being in the same location. You didn’t want to accelerate things too quickly, but spend time getting to know one another, while sharing about the possibility of coming together.
Paul Kim: Yes, that was exactly it. We (Harbor) first rented from them. They worshiped at 9am and we met there for an 11am and 1pm service. We had “connecting” events and occasional joint services to get to know one another. During that time, I was able to visit pretty much all the community groups at NCPC. And it was not to say, “Here’s the vision of why we’re going to merge. Do you have any questions?” Rather, it was saying, “I want to meet you and hear your story and journey in Christ and share mine.” And there was a lot of listening and trust building.
You have to build relational trust. Because there’s no fairytale story to a merge, it gets messy, it gets hard, and it gets stressful, and you have to make hard decisions. And that’s why when those hard moments and decisions come, when trust is established, how you respond, how you treat people, and how you lead through the process…these things matter greatly.
For me, it was a great experience to be part of the Harbor movement first before we merged. While I loved the Korean American church (and still do!), I remember leaving CPC (Cerritos Presbyterian Church) to go to Harbor and the first year, we attended the Downtown Harbor congregation with Dick and Liz Kaufmann. And downtown is downtown, it is a place of great diversity, ethnically and socio-economically.
At first, it felt very different, but eventually, I was able to get more comfortable in that setting, but not only that, through the larger Harbor movement, I was immersed in a church experience that was incredibly multi-ethnic, multi-cultural, multi-generational, and multi-faceted.
Therefore, by the time we merged together, I was able to have the experience of interacting with not only Asian Americans but a host of different ethnicities in various ministry and leadership environments. I was able to engage in situations and conversations that could be complex and challenging.
Steve Chang: Before Harbor, did you know that your bandwidth culturally was broader, or did it develop that way at Harbor?
Paul Kim: Yeah, that’s a great question. I knew before Harbor that my cultural bandwidth was broader growing up. Even though my parents spoke Korean, all my friends in elementary school and junior high school up to the first part of my high school years were white, not because I didn’t want any non-white friends, but there really were no other Asian Americans in my school and neighborhood environment! Also, our Korean church was far away, so being around a Korean community was primarily a Sunday thing.
And then, when I transferred to a different high school where over 40% of the students were Asian American, that was a culture shock for me. The same to be said for my college experience at Cal. At first, I remember thinking, “Oh, I found my Korean people; I found my tribe!” And in one sense, it was really nice. But in another sense, I felt like I still didn’t fully belong. Even today, I still wrestle with this somewhat. And yet, it reminds me that my ultimate sense of belonging is found in Christ, and this tension God has used to help me navigate the unique diverse family we have at Redeemer.
While I had cultural awareness before Harbor, my experience and time at Harbor did really develop it, with hands-on, actual ministry and life experience. I am very grateful for this being part of my journey and story.
Steve Chang: Must a leader have the cultural bandwidth or EQ to pastor a church that is culturally diverse? Or might it be better for the person to be just honest and be effectively used in a more appropriate cultural context?
Paul Kim: Within a culturally diverse environment, having a cultural bandwidth (rooted in gospel theology) is crucial. You’re going to grow into certain levels if you’ve been immersed, and yet there’s always a need for cultural agility. Think about a missionary going into a completely different foreign cultural context. Would it be wise and okay for such a person to do ministry without any cultural awareness or not mindful of it? Without it, such a person would have a very hard time connecting with people and effectively communicating the gospel into their life story and circumstances.
Regarding ministry in either an ethnically diverse or mono ethnic environment, I think it matters what your story and journey has been in terms of how God has wired you, so taking that into account helps discern one’s ministry “sweet spot”. It’s not that one type of ministry is better or harder or easier, but it’s about stewarding your life for Jesus given your God-given personality, passions, environment, and experience. Certainly, this is not the end all be all, but I believe God has sovereignly formed our inward parts (personality) and has placed us in a specific time and place and setting, and with that, we glorify Jesus with the story and setting He has provided for us as we consider the future.
To this, it would be important to have someone mature and wise help process your story and journey. This has been so helpful for me, having someone look at my story and help identify key turning points in my life and say, “I don’t have any agenda towards you, Paul. I’m not trying to get you to move in direction A instead of B or C. I’m not trying to shape your story or future in any way but rather I want you to see how God has already shaped your story, and I’m here to help you discover what that means for your future shaping in life and ministry.”
When we are able to reflect and consider our story and journey that God has provided and what that means for our current and future situation, we can move forward with gratitude and greater clarity as to future ministry decisions and calling.
Steve Chang: So, if someone was reading this article and saying, “Hey, should I consider merging with this church?” Some of the things that you bring up now is, “What is your personal cultural bandwidth? Are you ready to shepherd those people? Are you going to try to change the culture so that they can suddenly come to yours?” Maybe other things are, “What is your story, and how does that shape your ministry calling and direction? What are the idols in your heart? Or what are the pain points in your heart? Are you idolizing a multicultural ministry or a building? Or you’re trying to run away from the immigrant church?”
Paul Kim: Yes. I recently read Bono’s book Surrender and there is this one line where Bono talks about surrender and acknowledging “this perpetual longing to be filled with the extraordinary so that you begin to lose appreciation for the ordinary.” I believe all pastors struggle with this. I certainly do. The grass not only seems greener on the other side, but it seems so much more extraordinary than the ordinariness of what I am currently doing. This can be in terms of mono ethnic or multiethnic ministry, church merges, being at a bigger church, etc. So definitely, there are idols that the Holy Spirit needs to address in all of us, especially when we consider change and moments of transition.
Steve Chang: Blackaby would say, in Experiencing God, you have to look at the map and see where it is pointing towards. I concur, and I would say we need to steward who we are and the things that God has given to us.
Some of the things that you said were there has to be relational trust. It just can’t happen. Number two, the leader has to have cultural bandwidth, somewhere he can feel like he really can shepherd both congregations. He has to have the patience and humility not to move things along so quickly and not win all the battles. And maybe, finally, he has to sense that this really is of God. Anything you want to add to those?
Paul Kim: Yes. Two unhealthy churches will be an amplified mess or mix of toxicity. If you’re going to be an Asian American pastor and you want to become the lead pastor of a church that’s merging together, I think that’s something to assess: How are the churches doing?
You have to assess those things and be wise and thoughtful in bringing two different families together. You’re going to expect friction and you’re going to expect challenges, but there’s something to note about honestly assessing, “Are we at a place to do this?”
If there are two churches that are struggling and then they come together, I’m not saying that God can’t do it, but there’s a lot there. So, I don’t know if I have the right exact answer to respond to that. But that thought came to mind as you were sharing, Steve.
Steve Chang: It’s like two very lonely, toxic people getting married.
Paul Kim: And it’s going to become more toxic. So I guess the other thing for me, Steve, is to assess readiness. Readiness for the church you are pastoring. For the other church. And the leadership on both sides. And especially, your own readiness and character rather than relying on your gifts.
Church merges can be amazing and accelerate gospel momentum and impact. But that’s if two churches and their leaders are relatively healthy. And if you are healthy. But if that’s not the case, even if one church is healthy but the other is not, instead of forward momentum, the merge can be like a cancer that will not just stop momentum but drag you back. And, if you are not healthy in the gospel, that’s the biggest red flag right there. And since we each are so prone to be blinded by our own selves, this is where mentors, assessors, and friends who are not only loving and encouraging but truth tellers are needed.
