SOLA Social Media Manager Aaron Lee spoke with SOLA Network Editor Hannah Chao. Watch their conversation on IGTV or YouTube. Listen on Spotify or Podcasts.
Below are transcribed excerpts of their conversation, lightly edited for easier reading.
Aaron Lee: I wanted to talk to you about your most recent article: What If Church Doesn’t Go Back to Normal? Can you walk me through it really quick, and give a short summary to our audience?
Hannah Chao: It’s been about a year or so, depending on where you live, that a lot of the things that we consider normal ended, especially something as stable as going to church on Sundays. Where I live in Los Angeles County, the COVID numbers have been going down and vaccines are out, so our church decided to reopen [March 7], outdoors, socially distanced, with registration, temperature checks, and all that.
I went, and I was super excited. I hadn’t been with more than a handful of people for a year. Being able to sing together, to hear the word preached together, and to be physically together was something so exciting to me. And it was, despite all of the preparations that I had to take care of as part of the staff of the church.
But usually after service, people start to hang out and talk, and I noticed myself withdrawing or being quick to withdraw from conversations, or extricating myself from social situations.
When I came home, I talked to my husband about it. He didn’t go because he was watching our kids at home, and he wanted me to not feel more overwhelmed for our first outdoor service. I was debriefing with him, and he said, “Hey, that sounds very odd for you. You’re an extrovert. You love people.”
So we were just talking through it, and I realized that I didn’t know how to talk to people anymore. I didn’t know how to socialize. I didn’t know how to do it, especially with a large group of people. It was almost like social anxiety that I had developed over the course of a year.
So he said, “Hey, you should write about it,” but I said, “No, I think it’s just me.” But he said, “No, no, you should write about it.”
The funny thing is, right before I published it, I was sharing with a few sisters who I do accountability with about how I felt because they had also been there. They said, “We felt exactly the same way. It was so awkward.” So I thought, “Okay, maybe this is something that can help the local church.”
Aaron Lee: I want to talk about how you wrote it. Did it all come rushing to you at once? I know you mentioned you were thinking about it while you were sitting there at church. But when you’re actually in front of the computer keyboard, how did you get it out there?
Hannah Chao: Yeah, so usually, the best thing for me is I’ll just have an idea that’s in my head. For example, I’ll have a feeling that I haven’t felt before or think of a new connection. I’ll start talking about it to my husband because I bounce ideas off of him. And then if he says, “You should write it down,” I’ll start just writing things down.
For this one, though, it was a little different because we were in bed and I was about to go to sleep so he actually voice recorded me. Oh, wow. about it. Yeah. But guys the voice memo feature on your phone, it’s awesome because I didn’t actually listen to it. But I think the process of actually trying to think about it helped the idea formulate in my head.
So that the next morning when I sat down to write about it, I actually recalled the conversation. There’s something about recording yourself where your mind also records, too. So when I sat down, I had an idea of where it was going.
I was thinking about writing more specifically to extroverts (since I am one), but I actually pulled back and tried to make it more general because I realized that it’s not just extroverts who are gonna feel awkward — introverts will feel just as awkward and strange.
Aaron Lee: I love how you’re able to write using different methods. I’ve seen that you’ve been to church several times doing the presiding.
Hannah Chao: So this is the beauty of the internet: everything’s pre-recorded. So it’s not live. My husband’s actually the editor for our pre-recorded services so we will record the praise and the presiding on Sunday before but separately. I’ll come in and do my presiding, and then the praise team is there, and they do their thing. The preacher will come later in the week and then my husband will stitch it together with his amazing software.
There were a few weeks in the fall when it wasn’t as bad, before the big winter surge, where we did do it live all the way through. But we’re back to pre-recording. And since we’re doing it live, we’re doing pre-recording and live.
Aaron Lee: Oh, wow. That’s so much work. Isn’t that a lot of work?
Hannah Chao: It is a lot of work. But then I realized, it’s a lot of work for my husband because the editing and recording take a long time. But I realized for the staff, we used to do two services on Sundays. But now we’re doing one service on Sunday, and then one recorded service. So it’s just been shifted. And every church is different, right? Some churches are still doing it all on Zoom so you can see everyone’s face. There’s such beauty in that. At the same time, yes, some churches are doing outdoor services and releasing that to everybody with a live stream. That’s just awesome to see.
Aaron Lee: I do like how you gave suggestions near the end of your article. Very practical stuff. One of them revolved around singing. Can you elaborate on that suggestion that you made?
Hannah Chao: I think it’s so easy when we’re at home to not sing out loud. It’s almost like a concert vibe. So even for me, going back and singing with the mask on and with people, as much as I loved hearing the voices, it was so easy for me to just try to hide my voice.
So I think the encouragement to sing familiar songs can be really helpful. Because if we’re singing new songs all of a sudden, and maybe people haven’t been tuning into [recent services or know] the newer songs, that can be a deterrent.
I also think there’s something powerful about songs that have been there during retreats or conferences or songs that had meaning to us in the past when we were a little more connected. Singing familiar songs could really give us that push to sing loudly together.
It’s kind of like reading Psalm 23 for a devotion. You think, “Oh, I know I’m gonna get something out of this.” Whereas if I was reading Psalm 101, I’d have to dig a little deeper to figure out the meaning. Like with songs, you might be thinking, “What’s this next note?” But if you sing some of these really powerful old hymns or 90s or 2000s praise songs, that could be a way to help lead people back to singing together again because it’s something familiar.
Aaron Lee: You also asked how can the church facilitate community building in a safe way? What did you mean by this community building? Were you thinking of small groups?
Hannah Chao: Well, the reason it was vague in the article is that I don’t know. Because of this article, I got to talk to a lot of people from my church about what church will look like when we go back. I asked, “What are some suggestions that you have?” A lot of us don’t know. But the good thing is that people are open to trying new things.
Because we’re going to be wearing masks, it’s going to be harder to meet new people. It’s going to add to that uncomfortableness. So I don’t know what that will look like.
Once a month, our church serves at a local nonprofit boxed lunches for the people who are homeless, and we had newcomers come and serve with us this past Sunday. They weren’t that new; they joined our church during the pandemic. But it’s one of the first few times they are in person and they joined with serving. So I thought, “Oh, people want to connect and want to serve.”
I didn’t know about them when I wrote the article, but I think churches should just keep doing what they’re doing — meeting, serving the community. Because if people know about those opportunities, I think they will come, granted you have social distancing, masks, all those things. And if anyone has ideas, please let them and let us know. And we will let everyone know.
Aaron Lee: You make a really great point. If it’s difficult for you and me, as members and church leaders, and it’s awkward for us, you can imagine how newcomers feel when they come in. Or even if they’re not Christians, right? Like, if they’re coming just to check out a church. What do you think the church can do to welcome newcomers in that way?
Hannah Chao: Right now the benefit with church is that everything has to be small. If you’re a pastor and your congregation suddenly shrinks to 30 or 50, you’re gonna know each and every person who came that day, so you’ll know who’s new. And then a lot of these churches have pre-registration or registration. We’re automatically getting a newcomer’s information if they come.
So this is a great opportunity for churches to be aware of knowing the next step. What happens if a newcomer does come? The hurdle is usually that they come and go, and we don’t know where they are. But it’s pretty obvious now. So if you can start building in the ability to see and notice and appreciate the newcomers, granted it’s hard to do coffee with the pastor and it’s hard to recognize someone’s face if they’re new. But we can always try, and we can always just find ways to incorporate it in.
Aaron Lee: You ended your article on a really positive note. That was refreshing for me. Because I’m sitting there thinking it’s never going to be the same. And even I feel awkward leading music. I’m thinking how is this going to work out? But your article was really encouraging at the end. I want to ask how you came to that conclusion? Are you just super hopeful? Do you just feel confident?
Hannah Chao: I’m not gonna lie: I’m a very positive person. But also, I really just have to cling to the fact that the church is the bride of Christ. It will endure because Christ says it will endure. And so that’s my big hope — my macro hope of all hopes — but at the same time, when it comes to my local church, just continuing to see people who are faithful, who are trying, who are wanting to come back, who are wanting to serve and give, has been so encouraging to me.
I also see, though, places where I’ve noticed that people have fallen off or people are struggling. But I think there’s something powerful in us saying, “Hey, we’re all struggling and we all want to help one another.” That’s part of the reason why I wrote the article too is for those of you who feel like, “I don’t want to come back to church because everyone’s just gonna go back to normal and I already feel I’m not part of the community anymore or I feel awkward.” This is now a leveled playing field. One year of COVID. No one knows if you haven’t tuned into Sunday for a year. No one knows if you haven’t read the Bible in a year when we come back to church on Sundays in person.
Aaron Lee: It’s like a fresh slate. Everybody’s the same.
Hannah Chao: We really are. We’ve had to accept that our circle of friends has shrunk. Our circle of acquaintances is now zero. If you’re not close friends, like, I haven’t talked to you in a year, right? But now I feel like everyone at church is an acquaintance — we’re all back to zero, granted maybe with one or two people that you have talked to.
We can come back to the foundation of Jesus Christ. We’re already brothers and sisters, and now we keep going.
Aaron Lee: That’s so good. Thank you so much for writing that article.
Hannah Chao: It was a blessing. Oh, I will do a preview. I am trying to see if I can find someone who’s maybe like a psychologist or a sociologist, or a therapist, or somebody who can talk us through how to get through kind of social anxiety, especially after this long-term chronic condition. And so if any of our listeners know of anyone I should talk to please let us know because that would be so helpful for the greater church, too.
Aaron Lee: Your article was actually the first one at the top of my list for our year of pandemic articles. I did a quick round-up called God Has Not Forgotten to be Gracious: One Year of Global Pandemic at SOLA Network, and I think your article was fitting to lead the way in terms of our most recent work. How did you feel looking at all of those articles we released? I didn’t count them all. There’s so many.
Hannah Chao: There were so many. First of all, I’m thankful to all the contributors who wrote for us. We had people not just from America — we had people from Korea and Australia.
One of the things it’s shown us is how the global church can help the local church, and how the local church can help the global church and, and we could do that because of the internet — where we can share resources, encourage one another, and share stories.
One of the things that COVID has shown me is a local church’s problem could be a global church problem. And a global church problem can be solved or epitomized in a smaller church context, too. So I hope that local churches see that there are little microcosms that are so useful and impactful for the kingdom and that none of us are alone.
Aaron Lee: How did you feel as an editor, looking at all the work that you did, going back from a year ago and trying to check the climate and trying to put your finger on the pulse of what’s happening in the world, while also looking forward? How was it editing everything?
Hannah Chao: Honestly, it was tougher this year. I have two kids at home doing Zoom school. I felt very overwhelmed. But being an editor and talking to all my contributors, we were all overwhelmed. None of us were alone in that it was hard to be creative sometimes. And I totally got it. We had so much energy in other places.
And yet, to be able to share stories through the internet was such a blessing. And that’s one of the things I love being an editor is just being able to help people share theirs.
Aaron Lee: Yeah, I appreciate you, Hannah for all the work that you do at SOLA. And it’s my privilege, and it’s really fun, for me to be able to work with you. What can we look forward to this year?
Hannah Chao: One thing to look forward to is that I hope things will get better. Right. I hope that we get vaccinated. I hope that SOLA will talk about post-COVID versus COVID. But at the same time, I think this is a perfect segue — I hope to meet you in person, Aaron. In March 2020, it is now March 2021. I still have not met you in person, although we talk almost every day. Yeah, that is what I’m looking forward to.
My mother got her second dose of the vaccine yesterday. And I’m looking forward to getting my own when that’s available later in the spring. That is something I’m looking forward to. Seeing everyone and seeing, you know, my SOLA team, including you.
Aaron Lee: Well, thanks, Hannah. Thank you so much. Thanks for doing the interview. Was there anything else you wanted to talk about?
Hannah Chao: I am just encouraged. Thank you all for supporting SOLA and for sharing our articles. And again, if you ever want anything to contribute, please don’t hesitate to reach out to us so that we can all encourage one another.