The rise in anti-Asian violence has shown how difficult it is for our churches to talk about race. The dialogue can be so complicated that oftentimes we forget to address these issues with our children and youth students. But if the church does not address these issues to the next generation, then rather than learning a biblical view of these issues, they will be educated by the world.
In this vein, the SOLA Network is pleased to present a talk from Christ Central Presbyterian Church, in which two church leaders discuss how they processed the rise in anti-Asian racism and the violence in Atlanta in March 2021. SOLA Editorial Board member Soojin Park, who is also youth director, has a conversation with Pastor Huey Lee, education pastor at CCPC, on how they were processing these events as well as addressing their youth students about how to deal with the complex emotions and questions that arose from these tragic events.
We hope this conversation will be edifying and educational for youth workers so that they can begin conversations about race and other difficult issues with their students. We also believe this will be helpful for parents to bring up the issue with their children.
Below is a transcript of their conversation. It has been edited for clarity and flow. You can listen to the audio here.
Soojin Park: Good afternoon, Central Youth. Welcome back to Sunday Gathering. Today for a large group, I wanted to invite Pastor Huey and have an honest and frank conversation about how we are processing just some of the events happening around the country in terms of violence and hate towards the Asian American community.
Today is going to be Pastor Huey and me going back and forth, but I’m confident that there’s a lot in this conversation that’s going to help you process and maybe give you new things to think about. So welcome, Pastor Huey.
It’s been a year full of hate crimes spattered throughout the country here and there along with the Coronavirus, but particularly in this past month, we’ve seen a lot. One month ago, we saw the Atlanta shootings, and since then, we’ve seen terrible videos and clips around the internet of other attacks towards elderly Asian Americans and particularly women as well. How are you processing?
Huey Lee: First of all, thank you for doing this. This is such an important conversation for our children, and I can’t believe it’s been a month ago since the Atlanta shooting. The first wave of emotion I remember was probably shock and disbelief. And then [it was] just incredible sadness as I read the names of the individuals who were tragically murdered, and there were a lot of the Korean last names too. I just couldn’t believe this is what we were going through and then there was sadness.
About a week and a half to two weeks after, as I read more and more, if I’m honest, there was a wave of anger and frustration. Part of the anger and frustration was that when it came to the racism or hate crimes that we’d been witnessing, this one just felt different. This one felt so much more closer to home.
And around that time, there was a lot happening not just in Atlanta but in New York — that’s where I grew up. I recognize those places; I recognize those streets. The fact that it could be my mom, that could be my parents, or that could be my wife — I felt an overwhelming sense of anger set in because this is not just something that’s distant and far from me. It felt really personal.
As I read more and more, my upbringing and my experience as a Korean American and as Asian American from an immigrant family growing up in the States all resurfaced it. The stuff that I learned to suppress, the experiences I learned to let go, it all came flooding back.
For a good stretch, there was just anger and frustration. It became very exhausting at some point so I wanted to just forget. But at the same time, I didn’t want to end up where I became apathetic. So I needed to be mindful that okay, I still need to engage this, although it’s been really exhausting.
Soojin Park: Yeah, it’s so much easier to just like, walk away and not think about it.
Huey Lee: How about you? I mean, yeah, what have you gone through?
Soojin Park: I feel similar sentiments particularly because I emigrated to the states when I was young but old enough to be aware of my surroundings. Our family came to a really rural area where there were no Asian Americans. So from the moment I set foot in this country, I was always aware of the fact that I’m different, I am not part of the majority, and I need to be careful or else I’m going to stick out more. I’ve always grown up with this conscious awareness.
Even after we moved to Virginia where there are so many Asian Americans here, that never quite left. But part of that and I think it’s something about being in the Asian culture is that you’re taught not to focus on yourself and care about the greater good. When these events happen, you don’t want to think about it because there’s almost like a [pang of] guilt: don’t make it about yourself.
As we’ve been seeing hate crimes steadily rising with COVID, when I saw those [racist] things I felt the anger, but I quickly pushed it away saying, “Oh, it’s not about you. Don’t get caught up in it. There are bigger problems in the world. There are people that are suffering more than you. It’s not about you.”
But things kept escalating, especially with the Atlanta shootings, because those women look like my mom. They have faces like my mom and my grandma, and their names were like eemos (aunts) and ajummas (older women) who I would know if they were in this area, and it felt so personal.
And everything I had pushed down and told myself, “It’s not about us; it’s not about me” — it became about me. It became about my community and my family, and it became too real. A wave of emotion came, but again, there’s something about being Asian where we don’t know how to grieve these things properly, so I’m asking myself, “Where do I go with these emotions?”
So I felt so many different things like anger and fear. My mom texted our family group chat asking, “Should we all get pepper spray?” and I felt so much sadness that my mom had to ask that question. I felt this confirmation that we don’t belong here: We’re different, and we’re not accepted here. There was a little bit of pain in that too. It’s been a month, but since then, we’ve seen more events happen. I am learning how to better grieve, but it’s such a process.
Huey Lee: I’m glad you mentioned not knowing how to grieve because grief was never really talked about in our circles, not even at church. Grief and sadness were not something that was modeled well. I don’t blame my parents for that, and I don’t blame my older brothers and sisters because they didn’t know either.
But this past month, the part of the grieving that was really helpful was having you or other people at our church talk about it. That was at least the start of the healing process or the grieving process. You wrote an article at The Gospel Coalition describing your experience, and the details that you were willing to share with the audience — I could resonate with that, and I know others can resonate with that.
And our church did the night of lament and invited others to speak into it. I remember nobody was saying anything. But, you know, once the first person went, the second person went, I feel like that gave such permission for people.
Soojin Park: Permission is a key word.
Huey Lee: Yes, permission just to unload and to vent. I know there’s hope in the Gospel. But I think there are reasons why God gave us psalms of laments where he gives us permission to use laments to say them back to him without needing to needing for it to be resolved.
Soojin Park: Easter is a good example of that because you can’t get to Easter without Good Friday. You can’t get to the hope, the excitement, and the joy before you confront the problems, sadness and the sin, and the brokenness. You grieve, mourn, and lament. I agree that as a community we learning how to do that.
As I’ve been thinking about our students and how they may be processing, I realize that a lot of our students who may have been born here grew up completely feeling assimilated in a way that we did not. I imagine that for some of our students, some of the things we’re talking about doesn’t resonate as much. Maybe some of our students see that these are people that look like me and are part of my community who are hurting. But maybe up till this point, they hadn’t thought, “This is like my community” and, “How do I care for my community?” Maybe that kind of identification wasn’t there yet.
I even think about your kids. [Your son] Matthew is going to be in youth group next year. But he fits into that category because he’s born and raised here. He identifies as American, maybe more than his Asian American background. So how have you been discussing this with your kids? I think that directly connects to helping our students think through this as well.
Huey Lee: First of all, I’m grateful that my children’s experience of life here in the States and in Northern Virginia is going to be different than mine. They have assimilated, and they are growing up with this identity: “I feel like I should belong here.” My kids are still young enough where they don’t really see ethnicities and the color of people’s skin and I’m grateful for that. And yet, at the same time, I have such a burden for them to care.
So this is beyond Asian American only, but especially for Asian Americans, because God created us to be Korean American. God created us to be Korean, and our history matters and our heritage matters. It matters to God so it should matter to us.
For me, I desperately want [my kids] to care about what’s happening in the world and what’s happening within our Asian American communities, especially because, at least for this season, they’re going to a church where we are predominantly Asian American and Korean American, and that matters to the Lord and that should matter to us.
The way that I’ve been approaching it with my wife has been to provide something that maybe my parents and the older generation didn’t provide for me. Number one is modeling. I want my kids to see me read the news. I don’t turn off the screen when they come in. I want them to see me attend a prayer meeting, to pray these prayers at night, to pray for the elderly, pray for the women for their protection and safety because this is what’s going on. I want to be modeling that kind of grief, modeling even anger, and even showing frustration.
Also, it’s talking about [these issues]. The other day, [my son] Ethan came into my office, and he asked me, what I was reading. I told him I was reading an article on Facebook about what happened in Atlanta. So I just naturally told him, “Hey, this is what happened in Atlanta, and this is just incredibly sad.”
I didn’t give him any theological answers, but I just said, “I’m just so sad that this is happening in the world.” I want my kids to be familiar with the idea that dad and mom care about violence, racism, and injustice. I want to give them language to talk about these things.
Lastly, I just said, “Ethan, if you see somebody getting hurt, you know you have to do something.” He just kind of just laughed that off. But in my heart, I thought “How do I teach my kids to step in, especially when they’re scared?”
Soojin Park: That’s almost against our Asian nature of “Look away; don’t get yourself in a situation where you can get hurt.” — self-preservation. That’s a hard lesson, but it’s important.
I’m thinking of our students, maybe some of them are listening right now, and I want to have these conversations with my parents, too. I do want to challenge you guys, our students: If you feel like you have these thoughts and you have these questions, please ask your parents. I’m sure they will appreciate it.
I’m sure that as a parent, you could identify with them asking, “Hey, can you explain to me what’s going on? How are we supposed to think about these things?” It really starts in the home, and I would really want you guys to have those honest conversations with your parents and to hear from them first.
Huey Lee: I would even add to that. This is a little bit sad, but I’m anticipating that there’s gonna come a time where my words aren’t gonna matter as much to my kids. There’s going to come a season of their lives where they’re going to look to older brothers and sisters and their words are going to matter more.
So even along with your parents, I would say ask Director Soojin or any of the youth leaders a simple question: “Hey, how are you press processing what happened in Atlanta?” That’s such a good place to start and listen to people as they reflect on that, I would encourage you to read through Soojin’s article on TGC. That was just really, really helpful for me, too.
Soojin Park: Yea, your youth leaders are here, and they’re ready and willing to speak with you guys. We don’t have all the answers, but we are all in the process of learning how to grieve and process together. Your leaders can give you words and language to make a little bit more sense about what’s happening.
Pastor Huey, how should we think about [anti-Asian racism & violence] in a uniquely Christian context? Our students are aware of these situations, whether it’s on social media, hear from their peers, or they see the news, and there’s a lot that the world is saying about these things. But there has to be a uniquely Christian response. What do you think encompasses that kind of uniquely Christian response?
Huey Lee: This is one of those reasons why I think knowing God and His character, and knowing his word (what he has said and what He has promised) needs to drive everything. Because if we are not created in the image of God, then we don’t have intrinsic value, worth, and dignity. Whether you are Asian American, White American, or Black American, there’s no intrinsic value to us. If that’s the case, then it doesn’t affect me directly — why should I care?
But if we know who God is, if it’s true that he has created all of humanity in his image, and if we need to be able to connect that to what’s happening in our world, then absolutely! You need to care. Absolutely you need to grieve, you have permission to be angry and frustrated, and you have the responsibility to respond, wisely and winsomely, of course.
But you have the responsibility because your worth, dignity, and value comes from not the color of your skin, not your background, not what you do, and not what you possess, but because of who God says you are. So that’s what I love what you do here in youth ministry, and I love what we do in our education ministry: through and through, our passion is to teach God’s word. Because otherwise, whatever anybody thinks it can be right.
Soojin Park: The question I get all the time is, “How does this apply to me?” Every time we study the Bible, there are always those questions. This [moment] is how it applies.
There are moments in life where you’re going to see that theology that you’re learning through Scripture is not this vague concept or a notion that doesn’t matter. It matters that God created humans and that we’re made in His image because when it comes down to moments like this, it tells us we need to care. From Genesis to Revelation, it points us to truth and it points us to God’s character. We will come to points in life where those things actually matter.
To build off of that, one of the things that breaks my heart most about the Atlanta shootings is the shooter was a self-identified Christian and a member of a church. The reason he gave for shooting those people was he wanted to deal with his temptation. He gave this twisted Christian response. It breaks my heart because any of us could look at that and listen to that and think the problem is with the church, the problem is with Christians, the Christian culture, or the Bible.
That’s why I think your point [about the Bible] is right because it’s so important that we know what Scripture says. We need to be able to know what is he saying that’s being misused and misapplied and separate that from what is the actual truth about scripture. For example, what does God actually say about us fighting our sin and temptation versus what this person may say?
I imagine that the world is going to be even angrier with Christians, and our witness has been tainted. Yeah. So it’s not a matter of, “We need to fight back and be able to defend ourselves.” But we need to have confidence in ourselves that God that we believe in is a good God, and it’s not of the things that we are hearing — not to argue back [at the world] but [live in] confidence, having humility and responding in love.
Huey Lee: I’m willing to bet that there are so many people, including our students, who are thinking those things, but for whatever reason, they’re not asking. So I’m really thankful and glad that we as a church have been talking about how we feel and what we believe.
I’m hoping that as our students are being exposed to this [topic] more and more, it’s like we’re giving them permission to ask questions because nobody should expect any of us to figure this out on our own. So ask questions. You have to be willing to ask questions because not only does it matter to God, not only does it matters to the community, but you’re going to meet people that are wrestling with these things and they need your response. They need you to care.
Soojin Park: Or maybe it’s you [the audience] who is wrestling with these things. I know we have students who maybe feel a certain way about church — maybe you have personal hurts from church and you’re wrestling through if you even believe this or not. I just want to like plead with you, before you head off to college, before you leave Central Youth, at least in this time, do your due diligence to ask the questions and hear from people.
If you are one of the people who are sick of church even more after these things, I plead with you, please ask me as, as Pastor Huey, ask your leader. Tell them honestly, “This stuff is sickening to me. I don’t want to come to church because of this stuff. I need to hear from you: how you’re processing, how I can process, and how is [what the shooter said] different from the gospel that you are teaching.”
Huey Lee: For students who may be at a place, like me, where you’re tempted to take a back seat because it’s just so hard and to remain somewhat complacent and to keep it a lot arm’s distance, my encouragement to you would be to say, maybe that’s where you are for now, but at the very least, commit to the ordinary things like participating in worship, whether in person or not.
Listen to what is being talked about, participate in Central Youth small groups, do the ordinary things. Even if you feel like you’re just so far from God or you don’t want to care, even if that’s the case, stay within the ordinary things that you have been doing. I guarantee you God uses that to cultivate faith right in the midst of that as you’re being more and more exposed. That would be my plea, encouragement, and challenge.
Soojin Park: God does the extraordinary with the very ordinary. Well, we’re nearing the end of our time. But Pastor Huey, do you have final thoughts that you want to share?
Huey Lee: Yes, ask the Lord or ask others to pray with you for you to have a tender heart to what is going on in the world. Because again, this is about the image of God and His character. If and when people ask you how you feel, I want you to feel like you can say something and that you can respond to that with truth and compassion. Therefore, begin to ask questions, begin to talk to one other, listen to other people’s stories, even if they might not reflect your kind of experience. That’s so important.
Soojin Park: Two things come to mind. As we’re going through the book of Luke, we’ve been seeing that Jesus loves women, the poor, the vulnerable, the marginalized. Jesus has always personified this character of God who he loves those that are on the fringes. So one, I keep getting reminded of this fact, and that gives me great comfort.
I don’t know about you, but part of processing this and going through my fears has been that I feel more vulnerable. I feel like I am on the fringe, and I feel more weakened. But I want to give you guys comfort, but also a challenge to that: just as Jesus comforts us, he challenges us to care as he did. We need to care for those who are weak and vulnerable like our elderly in the Asian American community and the women in our community. It’s not an option for us believers, not to care. So I want to throw that out, pleading [for you] to care and not to go numb.
Here’s the other thing that comes to mind. As with any kind of issue around injustice, there are ways in which the world’s pursuit of justice and our pursuit of justice as Christians are going to overlap. Sometimes non-believers are going to cry out for the same things we are crying out for, and that makes sense because we all have an inherent desire for justice. But there will come points where it separates, meaning there will come a point where our response as Christians has to look different.
So my challenge and plea to you guys is don’t take all your cues from the world, from social media, and even the news. Take your cues from Scripture and from your church leaders. The world collectively may be crying out for justice for the Asian community, but at what point do we have to separate ourselves from unruly anger or just revenge? That’s not what we’re looking for.
We have a hope that’s different, and we have, we have a humility and a love that’s different. We have a righteous anger. But how is that anger going to be seen differently? So this is my challenge to you all as you are processing and dealing with this. Take your cues from Scripture, take your cues from your church leaders, and take your cues from your youth leaders. Pray about it. Let’s let the world know that this is what it means to be Christ-followers, to love justice, to love and mercy, and to love people around us.
Huey Lee: Thank you.
Soojin Park: Thank you for being here. Pastor Huey. Central Youth, I hope today’s conversation was helpful for you. Again, I really want to challenge you guys to ask the questions. Just like Pastor Huey said, ask your youth leaders, come ask us, and come ask your parents. We would love to have those conversations. So with that, Pastor Huey, would you mind closing for us?
Huey Lee: Father in heaven, thank you for the hope that we have in the Gospel. You don’t leave us with our laments, but you bring us out. You lead us out from the darkness and the pain and the sorrows and the grief, and you lead us to glory, you lead us to beauty, and you lead us to truth.
God, you don’t do that for us in isolated situations. But you do that in the context of community. So, Father, I thank you for Director Soojin. I thank you for all of our Central Youth leaders. I thank you for the community, Lord God, that we have provided and created for Central Youth students.
I pray that you would use the space to not only to teach and to educate, but to cultivate compassion, to cultivate humility, to cultivate love, and care for one another and for the world around us — to have all of our hearts broken for the things that break your heart so that we as directors and students can be a beautiful witness God to the world around us.
Lord, we long for the day that you will make all things right and all things new. Until then, would you equip us, empower us, lead us to be agents of reconciliation, to be agents and ambassadors for hope and peace and love in our world, in our community, and in our homes? Would you do that for us by your grace and by your power? We thank you.
It’s in Jesus name we pray. Amen.