Baldwin Chiu grew up influenced by hip-hop, eventually becoming the first Chinese American hip hop rapper. But when church leadership invited him to bring the sound to his immigrant church’s picnic, he didn’t get a standing ovation.
“I remember some of the older Chinese ladies like going up to my dad, and my dad was like, ‘What are you doing?” I had a little scolding when I got home: ‘What are you doing!? You know, there’s like, Christian Chinese old ladies!”
But through his faith in God’s calling, support from other hip hop artists, and even encouragement from his local church, Baldwin became the rapper Only Won, releasing several EPs and LPs throughout his career. Oh, and he’s also a professionally licensed mechanical engineer, actor, and producer.
In this interview with SOLA Network, Baldwin shares his testimony, as well his thoughts on how Christian artists can grow and thrive, especially through pushing past comfort zones. He also challenges churches to think beyond what is “traditional” and remember that our God is a God who is the creative creator.
Our “Artists in Motion” series hopes to platform Asian American Christian artists, as well as encourage all artists to root their identities in Christ and use their callings to share art and truth with the world. Find the other installments of our “Artists in Motion” series here.
Editor’s Note: Below is an automated transcript of their conversation with very light editing. There may be typos and other discrepancies from the video. You can listen to the audio here.
SOLA Network: Welcome to SOLA Network. Today I’m sitting down with Baldwin Chiu aka Only Won, rapper, artist, and one of the subjects of our feature film Far East, Deep South that we’re promoting. And so wonderful to have you Baldwin, glad, you’re here.
Baldwin Chiu: Hey, thanks for having me.
SOLA Network: I would love to hear your testimony. How did you become a Christian? How did you come to follow Christ?
Baldwin Chiu: Yeah, I was raised in a Christian family. Went to a Chinese church in San Francisco. So I understood the whole what being a Christian was all about. I guess I accepted Christ somewhere in elementary school.
But it really wasn’t until I was in college, and I was going through some things in college. And, and it’s funny, because one of the things I actually did when I was a youth counselor, I would tell students, I would say, you know, a lot of times college is where your faith gets tested. And that’s where you’re either going to grow in your faith, or you’re going to lose your faith. And it’s very rare that you stay where you are. And that definitely was what happened to me.
I got to a point where I was like, challenging my faith in college. And I was wondering, man, I see all these bad things that are happening in the world, I have friends who are in the church that are, you know, doing things that are not really godly. But then again, I have friends that are not in the church that are really close to me and encouraging me. And I’m just like, it’s kind of the reverse sometimes. So do I continue in my faith? When there’s so much pain that’s in the church?
And so what I did in college was I you know, I had open access to a lot of different things, right? When you’re in college, you can study a whole lot of different religions. I took a world religions class, I started studying more Buddhism, I got really heavily into the martial arts. So I was looking at Taoism. And you know, as an engineer, I have a mechanical engineering degree. I love science. Ever since I was a kid. And so I would, I would study evolution. And I will just look at all these different things that were not of a Christian faith, God.
And the more I looked into it and tried, the more hopeless I felt. I stopped listening to Christian music, I was only listening to mainstream music, secular music. And of course, that music didn’t really help me. There was all sad heartbreak, you know, trauma, you know, vengeance. And I was like, oh, man, this isn’t making me feel better at all. So eventually, I got to the point where it was a breaking point, I was like, okay, God, none of these other things that I’m exploring is helping me. So if you really are the God that I grew up with, then you’ve got to show me and you got to, you have to let me understand inside that you are really the one. Right?
And all at the same time, you know, I’m still into music and stuff like that, too. And I wasn’t sure–Where do I shift my music? I wasn’t sure if I could even be a Christian doing hip hop or beatboxing. Beatboxing is fine, it’s just making noises. But as far as hip hop and lyrics go, It’s like, what would I do with that if I’m gonna really follow my faith?
Ultimately, God put me in this place where He was like, Okay, I let you, you know, like, I love you so much that I let you try to walk away. But I’ve always kept a little string on you to let you know that I wasn’t going to totally let you go. And that little tiny string pulled me back. And that’s when I really came back to Christ. And I was like, you know, like, Okay, I’m all in now. But you’ve got to guide the rest of my path, because, because the world’s not going to let me, is not going to guide me closer to you. And so I think, you know, college really was that time where I was able to really bring my faith back to God and say, like, hey, alright.
SOLA Network: And as you’re, you know, recommitting to Christ you still love hip hop and you love rapping. how did you reconcile your faith and your art?
Baldwin Chiu: Yeah, I mean, I started, I’m giving out my age, I was a teenager in the late 80s, you know. And I had a lot of friends, I went to a relatively non-Asian, well, pretty much non Asian-school. I moved from San Francisco to the suburb of Sacramento. And so when I was going to elementary school, I think it was one of just a few Asians kids there. And so I really got into hip hop.
But my first inspiration for hip hop was Will Smith, Parents Just Don’t Understand, Run DMC, You be Illin’. I was like, Oh, this stuff is funny. You know, it’s got main points that I could feel in my life. But it wasn’t like at the point yet where it was, like vulgar or gangsta or, or, you know, like profanity-laden, right? It was just really fun. And that’s when I really got into it.
It was after when it started getting a little bit more dirty, you know, it got a little more, you know, hip hop. I started wondering, Okay, is that even part of, can I even be a Christian and like this? When I turn my faith back over to God, people used to always say, because, so this is in the late 80s, and I really started rapping, like in the early 90s. And I was writing a lot of lyrics. I was still in high school. So when I was in college, and I made that recommitment I was, I needed to come up with a hip hop name, right? I can’t just be like, I’m Baldwin, the rapper, right? So I was, what do I do about my name?
And people always say like, well, you’re like the only one that’s like Chinese and you’re rapping, you’re the only one that’s rapping in Chinese and English, right? You’re the only one that thinks that you don’t need to like cuss or use profanity, and keep it clean and think how can you be a rapper and be clean? You’re the only one that’s in school studying engineering, and you’re a rapper, right? It’s like, you’re the only one doing all these things that are totally outside the box. You will surely fail.
And I had to come to grips with that. I was like, Okay, well, then do I give up? Do I just let it go? And I felt like God was really saying, No, I got your back. Like, you tried to walk away, and I pulled you back, I still got your back. So I changed the name to the number one when they said you’re the only one. I’d say, Okay, well, let’s change it to W-O-N.
So what it means is that though I’m only one person, I haven’t lost to the pressures of the world, but I’ve won because of the Only One. And I knew that as long as I kept things in His perspective. I don’t have to like turn to the world. But I don’t have to be like, I didn’t feel like I had to be overtly like in your face, Christian, but I could just be real, right? That’s what hip hop is all about, being real. I can be real about the world, and I can be real about my faith. And I can be real about my, whatever environment that it’s in.
And I felt like God was saying, like, that’s where I want you to be. And so you could, you could still be real, you can still be rapping for the kingdom, without leaving the world. And so that’s, that’s, that’s how I reconcile the music.
SOLA Network: You know, I think that’s so powerful, because I’ve seen, you know, these young people loving hip hop and loving rap, and trying to go into and so often just mimicking the ways of the world. Well, how did you discover or what were some of the discoveries when you were like, I’m going to take these crazy interests in these crazy different identities that I’m at and put them into my art? How do you feel like that separated you and helped you to define yourself?
Baldwin Chiu: Certainly, I didn’t know in the beginning, you know, because my model wasn’t Asian and it wasn’t Christian. So I felt like okay, well, then, if my models are predominantly Black rappers, then I kind of have to maybe look like them or act like them or rap like them. As I looked more into my faith, and looked more into myself, and just what hip hop really is, you know, like, again, being real.
I did like dig deep into myself, like, well, who am I really then I’m not the gang member, I might have gang member friends, but I’m not the gang member. So I could take some of their experiences and, and put into my life, but I don’t really live their life. I go to church. So what are the things in church that bother me, right? I mean, a lot of times hip hop is about like the things that bother you, right? It’s all about freedom of expression, and, and being willing to, like, upfront, call it out. And there’s definitely things in the church that I felt like I needed to call out.
Of course, there’s things in the world that I wanted to call out, but then also realized that when the whole root of it started with me, it was because of the fun nature of it. So I rap about dimsum cuz I love eating dimsum. I eventually became an engineer, had a professional engineering license, I started rapping about technology, science, engineering.
And I was like, well, that’s me, right? They started calling me the lyrical engineer. And I was like, Well, yeah, cuz I mean, I’m keeping it real, right? I’m not keeping it real. I’m starting to like rap like a gangster right? So I think all of that and then of course, my faith, right? And, you know, being able to interject my faith. Sometimes I could be more upfront with him if I’m doing something more worshipful like the call of worship pop, but but it was just like rapping about regular things, you know, like I love to interject it in a normal sense, not in your face sense you know, like, like, stealing stuff like Well, God gave me a mind thought Oh, can I can design machine right on time? Right? So I’ll just do a quick little props. God gave me this mind so I can do what I’m doing. So stuff like that.
SOLA Network: I love worship hop as a genre.
Baldwin Chiu: I was gonna copyright it! I’m trademarking it right here. This is time stamped!
SOLA Network: And for a lot of kids that have grown up in first generation church, hip hop was seen as very not Christian, right, very, not acceptable in church. You know, as this second generation of Asian Americans emerges, what would you say you found is the value of hip hop as a genre to faith expression in the faith experience?
Baldwin Chiu: It’s funny you say that because I do remember, I grew up in a Chinese Church, and I was DJing in my college. And so we have a big giant picnic. And, and I was like, well, I’ll bring in the music. And so I brought the DJ equipment from the school radio station. And I put on Gospel Hip Hop, I put Gospel R&B, everything was Christian, right? But it was definitely like hip hop, r&b, some pop, you know, mixed in there too. I remember, some of the older Chinese ladies like going up to my dad, and my dad was like, he was like, What are you? What’s your son doing? He’s like, he’s playing this music. And I had little, I had a little scolding when I got home, what are you doing!? You know, there’s like, Christians or Chinese old ladies. Right? And that was one of those were one of several moments.
But the good thing was that I was asked to do that by the church by the leadership, right? They knew that the old Chinese ladies were going to be there. But they asked me to bring the music. And they knew what I was into. And I was fortunate that I went to a church that allowed me to play with that, that expression. Funny enough, the church ended up being located in a predominantly Black and minority area, it was kind of low income, and Chinese people would flock into this neighborhood every Sunday, and Friday nights to go to church, and then they’d leave the area.
Eventually, the church relocated, and it relocated to an area where most of the Chinese people are living a little more middle class. And then, but by now the parents are older, like the, the young adults are now older, and are parents, and they’re saying, and they come back to me, right? And then they’re saying, Hey, remember how you used to do that rap stuff? I can’t get away from it, because my kids are listening to it. But, you know, we haven’t really been doing as much of it, you know, like, but now that we’re opening up this new church, maybe the first thing we should do is do a rap concert? I was like what? And like, yeah, we should run that. Right? And so I booked, so we did, we did this show we, I brought in like, I brought in like these rap artists. I brought in like a dance group. I brought in like this before they had the sing off, you know, like a rocker hip hop acapella group that was there. And they were amazing.
And then of course, I rapped and beatboxed and stuff. And it was, it was a really cool thing. And we brought in all the youth and we had a basketball tournament. And, it was like the kickoff to this new Chinese church was like a big rap concert. And I felt like that was it. That was a point where I felt like our church was starting to, like, open up and understand the power of music.
Of course, I wouldn’t say all churches did that. I think it was very unique. Because I grew up maybe in the church, and they knew they could eventually trust me. The youth pastor had my back. He was actually the one who would say, hey, our drummer’s down. We have no drummer for worship. Could you beatbox? I was like, quit, you gonna let me spit on this mic? So yeah, I beatboxed during worship service. And I was like, rock it out right now we would like more guts, no Glory. Like, we’re just getting the whole church up. And I started beatboxing without the drummer. And the kids loved it.
But I think part of that really was because I had friends, it was a Chinese church. And I had friends that were not Chinese that I wanted to invite to the church. And some of them would be like, they were like, I don’t feel comfortable. Because I’m not Chinese. Right. But then we had all these second generation kids that were, you know, not really speaking as much Chinese. You know, the other friends are Americanized. You know, I speak Chinese too. You know, most of my friends were English speaking. And they didn’t feel like they were welcomed to church.. I mean, we have an English service, right? We go to the English service, but they’re like, Well, those, there’s still a lot of Chinese people there. We didn’t feel like, you know, it was appropriate or something, right?
And so that’s when that’s when I think the pastor and even myself, I was like, you know, maybe we should do more hip hop, we should, we should try to infuse it in a little bit of our worship, and we should maybe do some shows and some concerts or something like that.
And so, I think that that really helped. And I think that’s why it’s important for the church to understand that. Yeah, we use David a lot in our, you know, like, when in the Psalms, they’ll sing to the Lord a new song, Right? And, you know, which is, a lot of times the Church says we are really traditional. We want to just say this new music is not right. Pardon me, the old traditional, but what’s traditional, right? Traditional is like 100 years ago, but like, man, if you go really traditional 10,000 years ago, okay, yeah, like a God that said, I am creative, right? Yeah. You go back to Exodus and and you’re talking about like, What? Who builds the church? Yes, I’m a mechanical engineer, but am I gonna build a church as a mechanical engineer? Are you gonna hire Bezalel, who’s like an artist to build your temple? Right with creativity, right?
And so, those were kind of my arguments with the church, like, if you’re going to go traditional, don’t just go back 100 years–go back several thousand years to see what God said about being creative. What God said about singing unto him a new song. Can we continue to use those traditions today and sing unto the Lord a new song with creativity and build an artistry to make his temple, his church beautiful?
SOLA Network: Yeah. And I know a lot of our SOLA Network churches have really been reconciling the last few years with the fact that a lot of times when we think traditional, we mean traditionally White, right?
That’s kind of the culture that a lot of Asian American churches have, consciously or unconsciously adopted. You know, your experience with hip hop, and being in an art form that is predominantly Black and Latinx: How do you feel like churches that embrace hip hop and that embrace this different genre of music? How does that kind of help to reconcile with our Black and our Brown brothers and sisters?
Baldwin Chiu: You know, ironically, most of my support was from there. Like I in the very, very beginning, it was hard for me to really say, Okay, I’m going to do a concert at my Chinese church. But then now my DJ was Black. So he said, Well, why don’t you come over to my church? And I remember, they had a dance team that was all Black, hip hop dance team. We went in, I went to his church on a Friday night, or, you know, you’re doing rehearsals or something, I can’t remember what it was. But he brought me into it, he was DJing for the dance group, and he’s like, Come on up, right? And so I’m like, the only Asian guy there, right? So I go up there, and I start rapping, and I start rapping in Chinese. And I go back to English, and then I was like, and all of a sudden, you see, all these dancers stopped, they’re like, Ohhhhhh, right?
So I was like, wow, you know, and he was like, just nodding his head looking at me, right? And then, and I was thinking, Okay, you know, did my inspiration really was from a Latino rapper. Because when I was going to change church, I was like, oh, how do I make this work in a Chinese church? Right? And so, of course, you know, older Chinese, they’re like, they’re really glad you speak Chinese, even if you’re a Baldwin Chiu, an American Born Chinese person, right? Oh, you speak Chinese! That’s great.
I’ve heard of this rapper, his name is Tibo. And he was rapping with some friends of mine who were also in the Christian Music Industry, J.C. Crew at that time, and he rapped. And he was from Nicaragua. And he or, and he was rapping in Spanish and in English, but rapping about God. And I was like, oh, man, I could totally do this in Chinese. And so that’s when I started doing in the church, in Chinese. And I think that language barrier, that language when I started rapping in Chinese. Okay, that’s kind of fun. You know, first, they thought it was cute, right? Oh, that’s kind of cute. And it gave a little bit more acceptance.
So I think that along with, you know, my inspirations being real, I would say that Tibo really kind of helped encourage me to, like, find my own in my language and build to that way. And then the Black community kind of supporting me. Still trying to find Asian love. But it’s a little bit better these days, maybe. But it was, it was very encouraging for me to know that, that other people, you know, the Black community, really, really supported me and you know, a lot of my friends were Black that were that were rappers, most of them. And they’ve all they’ve always had my back. It’s the record labels on the other side, maybe not so.
SOLA Network: Well, for like, AAPI, like churches outside of your church, as you’ve seen, right, in terms of the reception that you’ve gotten, how has that changed? And how do you kind of hope that Asian American churches will change when it comes to embracing Christian Asian American hip hop?
Baldwin Chiu: Well, it definitely looks better today. You see a lot more artists, you know, they’re a lot younger than me and I’m glad you know that they are coming up and, and that they’re willing to express themselves too because now they’re, they’re newer, right? They’re younger, they have more fresh flavor, a fresh look on life. And I feel like the church can’t help but evolve a little bit right? So me rapping 25 years ago, right, different from the younger guys, you know, rapping now, and finding a little bit more acceptance.
I think it helps that the general world culture is more accepting of Asians. You know, in this type of Music, it certainly took a while, you know, you see America’s Best Dance Crew being pajong, you know, some of the winners and row file is being of Asian descent, you know, like, we’re just like Jabbawockeez, they have a mask on, so you don’t see their face, but then they’re like, man, they’re tight. And then they find out they’re Asian, it’s like, but then now they’re being seen by their art, they’re being seen by their ability to perform their ability to create.
And I think it’s kind of like that whole American is like, if you can be accepted by who you are, and rather than what you just look like, then I think it opens up a whole lot more opportunities for all of us.
SOLA Network: As an artist that has gone through multiple seasons of your life.
Baldwin Chiu: Thank you for saying multiple. You can see the wrinkles on your smile.
SOLA Network: How has your art informed your faith? How has your art kind of resonated with your faith and taught you things about God that you wouldn’t have known otherwise?
Baldwin Chiu: Yeah, I’m gonna kind of talk a little bit more earlier about just, you know, God, being creative, you know, God honoring creativity, God taking the back to the Genesis God creating the world, right?
And I think, as I, as I look into my creativity, you know, I feel like it’s in everything that we do. Even when I was an engineer, and you know, I speak about engineering, when I, you know, when I was working with the Obama Administration, as a spokesperson for their STEM program, engineering program, I used hip hop and music, to try and do that.
And it was because when people understand that creativity, and artistry is within all of us, it doesn’t matter what occupation we have. But creativity is in us, because we are created in God’s image, and God is a creator, then we must all be creative, right? So I think that understanding of myself and the understanding that it’s in everybody, as well, then not only can I create, I should be able to expect other people to appreciate that creativity.
And in the same sense, I should be able to create, appreciate other people’s creativity, whether it’s in hip hop music, or in other forms, you know, painting or visual, creative, any type of creativity, right? And we should be able to see that in our lives. As we like, as an engineer, how do I create something? Do I just make something that works? Or do I make something that’s beautiful? And works? Right? Same with anything else, any other type of profession.
Can you find that beauty, and that artistry in what you do? To not just make something work or happen or be effective, but do it in a way that’s aesthetically pleasing or pleasant? Because that’s how God intended it to be.
SOLA Network: Last question, when you think about, you know, this emerging generation of Asian American Christian artists who are loving hip hop and creating hip hop, how would you encourage them in their lives in terms of what you know, their future may or may not hold?
Baldwin Chiu: Yeah, I mean, if you’re talking specifically in the Christian music industry, I mean, there’s a lot of work that still needs to be done. And, and I, you know, I joined the Gospel Music Association at a younger age, and I’m still in touch with a lot of the people there. And we’re hoping that our film now that they do films, you know, and the Gospel Music Association, we hope that our film can be accepted.
But to be quite honest, The unfortunate thing with contemporary Christian music or gospel music industry, if you want to call it an industry, or just a genre, it hasn’t been fully accepting of this face quite yet. And I don’t think it’s necessarily intentional all the time. Maybe it’s just they’re not used to it.
So as Asian Americans, I think we need to more normalize who we are. We need to be willing to understand that it’s a lot of work. I think a lot. That’s part of the problem, too. I think a lot of when they say, Asian people, you work hard, I would say yes, but only maybe up to a point, we will. And maybe I’m calling out our own community a little bit on this.
But I think a lot of times we’re willing to work hard until it gets comfortable. And then after that, we don’t really want to push to that next level. It’s the you know, it’s easy to get to that upper middle class, middle class status, and then hold and maintain. But it takes a whole lot of effort, more effort to go from that to this influential person, the one that’s leading the conversations, the one that’s leading the worship, right, not just singing and doing well playing music that’s written by somebody else. But taking that extra step to creating the music that inspires somebody else to worship God. Right? That takes a whole lot of extra effort. And it does take a whole lot of extra risk.
And so if the Asian community, Asian American community really wants to continue, if they want to be that voice–they want to be the Asian American, Chris Tomlin, right?–they need to understand that there’s a lot of work to be done there. They need to also get the support of the entire community but not just our community, they need to work to the point where the rest of the 94% of the country that are not AAPI, right, also appreciate and understand how their music is worshipful and can appeal to everybody, not just the ones that look like us.
So there’s a lot of work to be done. Which is good but it gives me hope that there’s more that are growing up in the church that are playing music or being creative. We just need to, as an entire community, encourage those young people to say like, Hey, is this really a passion of mine? Is this something I can really excel in? And even if I fail, is it okay with me? Is it okay with you? Right?
I think that’s probably, I think a lot of times we’re okay with failing ourselves. But I think the problem with the Asian community is, you’re not going to be accepting of me failing, right? And, and sometimes, those fingers pointing at us not accepting that, is a lot stronger than myself feeling like I can’t fail, right.
So there’s a lot of work within ourselves as individuals, but I think there’s a lot more work as an entire community to really support those that see the talents and the gifts and you see their calling together and really support that.